Overcharged for LTCF? It's time to act (Updates Page 23)

[Bruce]

As far as the LTCF fees go, IronSight is right on the money here (pardon the pun).

I am a lousy bookkeeper - it's almost as bad as my housekeeping!

So, yeah - the only one who might have a clue where my receipts from the Sheriffs offices who issued my LTCF and it's 'renewal' would likely be (if they still exist) is my cat; and she ain't talkin'.

I *hate* when people say: "choose your battles wisely" (and variations thereof) when there is a legitimate grievance presented and a realistic way to petition it.

Constitution of the United States of America:

Amendment 1:

Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the [...] right of the people [...] to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

re*dress [noun]:

1. the setting right of what is wrong: redress of abuses.
2. relief from wrong or injury.
3. compensation or satisfaction for a wrong or injury.

When the poo the government is shoveling on you outright stinks, you have the Right (the Civic Duty, IMHO) to not only complain about it (especially to them) - but to get it fixed!

If my organizational skills were worth a whit, well... let's just say: there'd be a whole lotta "petitioning" going on!

Whenever, wherever and however 'the government' (et al) steps out of line, that *is* the "battle" that each and every citizen should "pick" - each and every time! Anyone who tells you otherwise is either, well - part of the government them self or they are "afraid" of the government. ...No honest, law-abiding American citizen should *ever* be afraid of the government!

Bravo, IronSight!
.

[Grinnen13]

I'm in Lawrence County. Got mine in plastic, with a picture on it, and still only paid $25.

If I HAD been overcharged, I would have written letters. So I suggest that no matter how much a run-around you get from your local sheriff's office about it, pursue it, because they can't charge you more than $25,

there's no "We're lazy and doing the job right is a pain in the ass, and money motivates us so we charge you more than we're allowed to!"
in the statute if I recall correctly. Don't let them walk on people, because they too are people, badge or not.

[biggs88]

The paper ones are presently your actual license to carry firearms. They are the one that the PSP has designed, officially endorsed, and produce for issuance(your sheriff gets them from the PSP in triplicate). The plastics ones are NOT your LTCF, but rather an optional representation of your license. If your county chooses to issue the plastic ones as an upgrade at a additional cost it is not foul of the law so long as they still have the official paper license at $25. Now if the county only offers the plastic card, it can in no means charge more than $25 for it.

Camel Wides Lights..

I realize some of the counties are charging more than the statutory rate, but what I said IS true.

NO it is NOT.
You are dead wrong.

"If your county chooses to issue the plastic ones as an upgrade at a additional cost it is not foul of the law so long as they still have the official paper license at $25."

The plastic cards ARE LTCF's. They are being SOLD as LTCF's. They can NOT sell LTCF's for more than $25. As I said, they can offer gold cards, cards made out of panda skin, ect. . . . The make has nothing to do with it. NO ONE is allowed to sell a LTCF over the $25 law.

Please!!!! read the law. Please tell me where there is a subsection saying the $25 fee may be raised if both parties agree to the fee and the LTCF is presented in a higher quality?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[ViperGTS19801]

Serously, please find the law that defines what a license to carry firearms is! I can't find it for the life of me and I want to do some homework to see if I can get the Montgomery County Sheriff to give my g/f her shiney card-like LTCF for $25.

[Kurt_D]

In Delaware County, this is on the cover sheet for the "Gun Permit" (yes, that's what they call it) application (quoted and image attached):

7. PLEASE BRING $46.00 IN CASH OR MONEY ORDER. SHERIFF'S OFFICE CANNOT ACCEPT CHECKS.

YOU WILL BE NOTIFIED BY MAIL WITHIN FORTY-FIVE (45) WORKING DAYS AS TO YOUR APPROVAL OR DENIAL.

Color highlighting is theirs, bold, underline, italics is mine. Mine is up for renewal in about 8 months.

Link to the DELCO sheriff's LTCF page: http://www.co.delaware.pa.us/sheriff/weapons.html

[HiredGoon]

Wonder what method these sheriffs use to determine the higher price of $46 or whatever else they charge above $25...since it is not in the statutes?

Would be interesting to see exactly how they arrived at that (illegal) fee.

[ABuck]

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...6109/licenses/

(h)
(7) A person who sells or attempts to sell a license to carry a firearm for a fee in excess of the amounts fixed under this subsection commits a summary offense.



So, the Sheriffs doing this are committing a summary offense. Unfreaking believable. If you have a Sheriff being difficult about a refund, hell, even if they cooperate, why not have him cited? Exposing the department breaking laws would not look good, especially come election time. Could you imagine a bunch of summary offenses filed against an acting sheriff? I think once word got out about a refund, that could be a possibility.

[Bruce]

[I ain't no lawyer; nor am I a judge, a cop or currently a juror.]

Some of our Sheriffs are (clearly) guilty (and very well documented of such guilt at that) of committing *thousands* of these Summary Offenses a year - every year for years and years!

...I wonder what would happen to an ordinary citizen if they were tried and found guilty of committing *thousands* of such crimes every year - for years and years?
.

[edit:] Knowingly committing these crimes, no less...
.

[Kurt_D]

The other issue that comes to mind is that you are supposed to get ALL your money back (all but $5) if your application is rejected:

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109, (h), (6):

Except for the administrative fee of $5 under section 14(2) of the Sheriff Fee Act, all other fees shall be refunded if the application is denied but shall not be refunded if a license is issued and subsequently revoked.

Wonder how many actually do receive these refunds???

[mrjam2jab]

Fee for a license to carry is $46.00. Cash only, no personal checks will be accepted. The license is valid for five years from date of issue. An upgrade to the new plastic card from the present paper permit is $21.00. Paper permits are still available for $29.00 (two digital photos required, available at our offices for $10).

Bucks' fees never made sense to me. Paper permit is available for $29...which is $4 more than allowed. Is the $10 for pics (is he allowed to charge extra for that?) added ONTO the $29? Because that $29 sure sounds like $19 (pre Act 66) + $10?

$21 upgrade avail...is added to $25....but $25 isn't even one of his options...????