How do I know a hand gun for sale isn't stolen? + other questions

**LCR** · March 25th, 2010, 08:26 PM

Asked this at a few gun stores, no one seems to know how to check.

These questions only apply to hand guns as long guns don't need a transfer at a FFL.

How can I check if a hand gun isn't listed on a stolen list? I'd hate to buy one, have the transfer go through ( as the instant phone check only seems to look at my status ) then when the PA State Police registration gets mailed in have them kick it if it comes up stolen.

What about the non documented family transfers? Say someone in the family ( A ) gives another member ( B ) a gun ( legal ), time goes by , the person that possesses the gun sells it. For one reason of another ( A ) decides they want the gun back and claims it was stolen. The PA SP run the # and come a knocking.

The last one is where someone's spouse dies and the survivor sells off the hand guns. Being the spouse wasn't listed on the original form sent to the PA SP, will it trigger issues having a new name pop up? A guess a similar situation would be when a widow moves into PA from out of state , cleans out husbands sock drawer , finds gun and puts it up for sale. Now there is a serial # appearing that was never in the system and no one to tie it to.

I am in no way interested in doing something that is shaky, I can usually spot a squirrel and will go running.

Thanks

**mythaeus** · March 25th, 2010, 08:53 PM

The burden of proof is on the government/prosecution to prove that the gun was stolen. It's NOT on you to prove that the gun is not stolen. Even then, so long that it's transferred to you via an FFL, there isn't a thing they can prosecute you for other than "possession of stolen goods" IF (big IF) they can prove that you KNEW the gun was stolen before you bought it.

Al

**donm** · March 25th, 2010, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by LCR

...when the PA State Police registration gets mailed in...

Ouch! Gun registration is illegal in Pennsylvania. Other than PSP's nonexistent purchase database, there is no record of gun ownership here. There are many millions of guns in PA that are legally owned with no record of who owns them -- as it should be.

**Xringshooter** · March 26th, 2010, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by LCR

How can I check if a hand gun isn't listed on a stolen list? I'd hate to buy one, have the transfer go through ( as the instant phone check only seems to look at my status ) then when the PA State Police registration gets mailed in have them kick it if it comes up stolen.

You can't, unless you have a LEO friend that would run the number for you (without arising suspicions at the PD). If you buy one and it turns out to be stolen then they will take it from you and then you would probably have to go to court to get your money back from the person who sold it to you.

What about the non documented family transfers? Say someone in the family ( A ) gives another member ( B ) a gun ( legal ), time goes by , the person that possesses the gun sells it. For one reason of another ( A ) decides they want the gun back and claims it was stolen. The PA SP run the # and come a knocking.

The only non documented family transfers (in PA) are from husband to wife, parent to child and grandparent to grandchild (and vice versa). All other transfers have to go through a FFL or Sheriff.

In the case you proposed: IMO (A) is out of luck. As soon as they gave it (or transferred it) to (B) it became (B)'s to do with what they want. You then bought it legally from (B). (A) would have prove that (B) stole it. They would then have to take you to court and (IMO) would have a hard time getting it back as you bought it legally.

The last one is where someone's spouse dies and the survivor sells off the hand guns. Being the spouse wasn't listed on the original form sent to the PA SP, will it trigger issues having a new name pop up? A guess a similar situation would be when a widow moves into PA from out of state , cleans out husbands sock drawer , finds gun and puts it up for sale. Now there is a serial # appearing that was never in the system and no one to tie it to.

When the spouse dies, unless the will states otherwise, the property belongs to the survivor. There is no registration in PA, so even if it came from out of state there is no problem. The survivor can put it up for sale as it legally belongs to them. Just because the spouse isn't listed anywhere, that will not trigger anything, the gun(s) legally belong to the spouse and they can do with them what they want.