PA Firearm Transfer - HELP

[paguy70329]

Hi:

I need assistance regarding the potential transfer of a handgun. I have been offered a free pistol from an acquaintance, not a relative. The issue is that as far as I can determine, it is unregistered, or at least it is not registered to the current owner. His story is that a friend of his was willed the entire estate of a gentleman, which included several firearms. My acquaintance was given this firearm by his friend. Again, there was no transfer completed from either the gentleman's estate to the executor or from the executor to my acquaintance. My acquaintance has reached a point where he no longer wants this pistol in his possession. I am interested, and am even willing to pay him for the pistol, but he doesn't want to be involved in any sort of legal transaction, given that he doesn't have any paperwork or legal registration of this firearm in his name. I don't even know if it was ever registered in Pennsylvania, although the man who died did live in Pennsylvania for many years until his death. Is there any mechanism that allows a firearm such as this to be brought into legal status or transferred into either my name or perhaps the current owner? I have obtained a copy of the guide "Pennsylvania Laws relating to firearms" from my local legislator and have read the entire sale/transfer section. This issue is not discussed. All of the onus appears to be on the seller. I have read through the Pennsylvania State Police Website and again, this topic is not discussed. If there is any legal and law abiding way to own this gun, without getting myself or the current owner arrested in the process, I am curious as how to pursue it.

Thank you for your help and guidance.

paguy70329

[ExCopInPhilly]

If the gun was willed to him, then there should have been an attorney who acted as executor of the estate, and would have a record of all of the articles which were willed, to include the gun. The executor should have done a legal transfer, through an FFL, to the person to whom it was willed, and if not should do one. That person could then transfer it to you, or you both could contact the executor and transfer it directly to you through an FFL. The executor, or author of the will, is the key, so long as it was listed in the will, if not then the next of kin would be the likely road to legally transfer it.

[NineseveN]

My opinion, DO NOT take possession of this firearm without getting it transferred to you through a dealer's FFL.

There is no "registration" in Pennsylvania, but in order for you to have legal status in owning the firearm and complying with the law, you must do the transfer through a dealer.

I am not a lawyer, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, I just live in Pennsylvania, and ALL handgun transfers must go through an FFL (ETA except of course, between spouses, parent-child, grandparent-grandchild since we're being anal ).

As to whether or not you could get dinged for taking ownership of a firearm that was not legally transferred to the person you bought it from, that's another thing entirely. It could be listed as stolen or have been used in the commission of a crime, you don't really know. having the serial number checked could clarify that, but I don't know that I'd go through all of that, even for a free gun (because you'd still likely have to go back to the estate/atty and get things done legally from the beginning to comply with the law). What kind of (make and model) of gun is it. When was this gun given to the person trying to give it to you?

[paguy70329]

Thank you for your reply. As I stated, whether free or for a fee, I am interested in obtaining this, but I want to do it legally. I am not objectionable to checking the serial number, as it is visible and has not been altered.

It is a Smith & Wesson, I don't really have any more information that that.

As far going by to the estate, that is not an option. I don't know how long ago the death was, but the person with current position is in a similar position in some ways to the one I am, that being he doesn't have the ability to go back an alter what happened. The executor/person willed the estate of the deceased has moved, or at least that is what I was told.

Again, I understand that all transactions should go through a FFL, but that doesn't mean that all of them do. What surprises me is that there is no literature on how to handle this issue, I am sure that people in the past have encountered similar situations that are law abiding and would like to correct a mistake and abide by the law.

paguy

[Pa. Patriot]

... ALL handgun transfers must go through an FFL.

Not true. Spouse to spouse as well as parent to child and grandparent to grandchild are excepted.


As for everyone else:

(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed
importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or
transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only
upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer,
dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall
follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the
seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not
apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a
parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and
grandchild.

ss6111.2 of the UFA

(g) Penalties.--
(1) Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer
or licensed importer who knowingly or intentionally sells,
delivers or transfers a firearm in violation of this section
commits a misdemeanor of the second degree.
(2) Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer
or licensed importer who knowingly or intentionally sells,
delivers or transfers a firearm under circumstances intended
to provide a firearm to any person, purchaser or transferee
who is unqualified or ineligible to control, possess or use a
firearm under this chapter commits a felony of the third
degree and shall in addition be subject to revocation of the
license to sell firearms for a period of three years.

[Statkowski]

You will kindly note that there is no criminal offense, nor any penalties, for the recipient of a firearm when the person disposing of the firearm does not comply with Section 6111.2.

The person receiving the firearm has no obligation to do anything other than receive the firearm.

Interesting, yes?

[Pa. Patriot]

You will kindly note that there is no criminal offense, nor any penalties, for the recipient of a firearm when the person disposing of the firearm does not comply with Section 6111.2.

The person receiving the firearm has no obligation to do anything other than receive the firearm.

Interesting, yes?

Correct!
I should have included that you have no way of knowing if the firearm was correctly "transferred" to the present owner. Since you (and the FFL) have no way of checking.

[markheck1]

Ok, how would this be any different than say someone buys a gun while they live in OH, move back here, sell the gun to someone....unregistered...is unregistered...it should not matter how the firearm was acquired, IE "I've had this for a long time". (Of course we don't HAVE a registration system in PA)

THIS IS NOT ADVICE!!! I am asking a question.....

[Xringshooter]

The way I see it is that if the giver and you go to the FFL and do the transfer and you are legally allowed to own the handgun the process is complete and you are now the legal owner of the handgun. If, down the road, it is determined that there is something wrong (gun was stolen, etc.) the most that would happen is that it would be taken away from you. You would tell the authorities when and from whom you received it (verified by the FFL records) and you would be liable for nothing.

If it was a longarm, he could just give it to you. I would still get something in writing that deals with the giving of the gun.....just in case.

[Statkowski]

If the firearms transfer is effected through the Sheriff's office (and the law does state that this is one of their duties, despite what they might say), the firearm is transferred from Person A to Person B.

If the firearms transfer is effected through an FFL, then the firearm is transferred from Person A to the FFL, and then from the FFL to Person B.

The difference between the two is because the FFL can't do an NICS check unless the FFL is selling the firearm. If you transfer it through an FFL, you're technically selling it to the FFL who immediately sells it to the recipient.