Help id'ing old S&W

**cruzans** · March 20th, 2010, 02:00 PM

Got an old S&W top break 38 at the gunshow today. Got some info. from seller, not sure how accurate. Anyone see or know anything about this old gun ? What I was told was :
* genuine mother of pearl grips, not fake
* extensive scribe work. a deer on every break on cylinder, leaves on
barrel, original owner in two or three spots one riding a bronco, one
smoking ( really custom made of the owner or produced that way ? ).
* lemon squeezer type grip safety
* 38 s&w cartridge ( ok, embarassing question, is that the same as
38 special ? ).

Any thoughts on the gun or how much you think it's worth would be appreciated to see if I got a deal or a bill of goods. Not really looking for an
expensive gun cheap, just wanted an old top break and thought I couldn't go wrong with a S&W. Thanks !

**justashooter** · March 20th, 2010, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by cruzans

Got an old S&W top break 38 at the gunshow
* 38 s&w cartridge ( ok, embarassing question, is that the same as
38 special ? ).

Any thoughts on the gun or how much you think it's worth would be appreciated to see if I got a deal or a bill of goods. Not really looking for an
expensive gun cheap, just wanted an old top break and thought I couldn't go wrong with a S&W. Thanks !

a pretty little piece you have. 38S&W is not 38 spcl. the cases for 38S&W are larger diameter by 10 thou or so, and shorter than 38 spcl by 30 thou or so. you need 38S&W ammo. it will be 1.5X the cost of 38 spcl, and a little more difficult to find.

does the gun lock up tight in terms of timing? that is to say, when you cock the hammer does the cylinder have more than 5 thou play in either direction? if it does not lock up tight you are asking for trouble in shooting it. you will get shavings sprayed back into your face if the gun is fired out of time. timing is controlled by the hand that comes up out of the lower frame and engages the notches in the cylinder. this hand often wears quickly in such guns and has rounded edges or does not come up high enough. getting this repaired would cost more than the gun is worth, in most cases.

the customisation of the gun is added value in the eye of the beholder. the gun in working condition is worth 100-250$, depending on purchaser's interest in the type.

**brian** · March 20th, 2010, 03:09 PM

looks like it is ".38 safety hammerless", probably a 4th model.
they are dao.
roughly 100,000 produced from about c.1898 - 1907.

**cruzans** · March 20th, 2010, 03:15 PM

Thanks for the info., looked up 38 s&w vs 38 special - tough locating any 38 s&w ! I was amazed at how tight the gun was - that plus the art work, pearl, and S&W made me get it. Looked a little closer at art work, left side has guy on bucking bronco, right side has guy with lasoo over his head and the whip going all over the side, on the hammerless top is him with gun under arm, on top of gun is a buck, on every cylinder is a buck, then the leaves on vind down the barrel. On the bottom of the grip is his initials W*H*G - Anyone know him - lol.
Going to keep trying to find 38 s&w now - should head back to the gunshow !

**cruzans** · March 20th, 2010, 04:22 PM

Ok, I know I'm reaching here a bit, but I googled the initials on the bottom of the grip W H G and got a hit from a PA man - what do any of you history buffs think - possible ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Harrison_Graham

**brian** · March 20th, 2010, 05:08 PM

you might also want to get it lettered from s&w.

**cruzans** · March 20th, 2010, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by brian

you might also want to get it lettered from s&w.

I was thinking that, but $ 50 charged by S&W to do a search - could be very interesting or a dud - lol. I really think the initials could be that of William Harrison Graham - he was from Allegheny, PA., in the civil war but in office as a Representitive in the late 1800's early 1900's. It says his unit during civil war went from std. to cavalry - so maybe the love of horses, whips that are engraved on the gun ? He then had a leather business after the war and in banking, so had some money so maybe the fancier pistol with real pearl, engraving, etc.. Heck, I've convinced myself

Ahhhh, maybe I do spend the $50 just to satisfy my curiosity !!!!!

**Brick** · March 20th, 2010, 06:49 PM

Try a google search for Smith & Wesson Safety Hammerless and try the Smith & Wesson forum, there are many people there with great knowledge of S&W.

OA I like top break revolvers. I wish someone was making them with modern steels in updated calibers.

**brian** · March 20th, 2010, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Brick

OA I like top break revolvers. I wish someone was making them with modern steels in updated calibers.

they are neat, but the design is inherently weak....even modern steel can't fix that.

**Xringshooter** · March 20th, 2010, 07:22 PM

I concur with brian, .38 Safety Hammerless 4th Model (it had a pinned front sight, the 5th Model didn't).Serial number range 116003 to approx 220000. book value, $60 to $600 depending on condition. The grips, engraving and if you can determine whose initials are on it could be worth more. Originally came with hard rubber grips with the S&W logo.