Basic Tactical Carbine

[PeteG]

haha. Well as Pete mentioned, I contacted Kriss TDI and Eotech yesterday. I had a 43 minute conversation with a customer service guy from Kriss.

He was unaware that removing the shroud can throw off zero.

They are addressing the non-ergonomic safety selector switch and redesigning it.

I mentioned that loading a full mag on a closed bolt is tough. He said "our policy is to load on an opened bolt" well no sh!t sherlock. thanks.

No one he knows has tried engaging anything at 200 yds. But their "tactical guy" has engaged steel man sized targets at 100 with the SBR.

One disconcerning thing I learned about the Kriss is the ammo issues. I told the guy I was using Winchester white Box. He said that he is one of the gunsmiths and they have had 4-5 cases where WWB has light loads and the round doesnt make it all the way out of the Carbine barrel. Then the owner fires the next round. I told him, "but WWB is approved on your list of ammo in the manual" his response is "that list is old" ok but there isnt an ammended list on the website. Well at least I know. But supposedly the warrant doesnt cover the kriss for a squibbed round. I dont think that is right. Im using ammo they said was approved. Granted it is Winchester's fault for quality assurance/control issues.

I then told Eotech about the elevation affecting my windage. "uh that is not normal" ok good so fix it. So now I have to wait for a return authorization. But according to the tech support, Eotechs should have independant adjustment.

He was unaware that removing the shroud can throw off zero.

Many, if not most, manufacturers of rifles don't know how they work, or how to use them. It's amazing, but true. These guys sold you a gun without knowing (let alone telling you) that removing the shoud will knock your zero off the paper at 50 yards.

Believe me, it is not just this manufacturer. I have been given completely inaccurate - wrong - information from factory "gunsmiths," and "technical guys" dozens of times.

But supposedly the warrant[y] doesnt cover the kriss for a squibbed round.

How convenient. First, the ammunition you were shooting is well within the grade and standard one would expect of factory .45 acp. Second, ANY brand of factory ammunition can come through with a problem now and again; which is to say, it is entirely foreseeable a round will turn out to be a squib. If they are having a particular problem with squibs in those rifles, it's not the ammunition.

Meanwhile, does the warranty cover your eyes? I would be very careful with that thing.

I then told Eotech about the elevation affecting my windage. "uh that is not normal"

If it's not "normal," then how did I know about it? I don't even own one, and I knew what was happening as soon as I saw it, precisely because it happens all the time. If "normal" means "commonly occurring," it sure is.

The people who sell you this stuff lie, dissemble and look for someone else to blame. All one can do is to educate himself and work through the bugs on every piece of ewquipment before relying upon it.

[TonyF]

haha. Well as Pete mentioned, I contacted Kriss TDI and Eotech yesterday. I had a 43 minute conversation with a customer service guy from Kriss.

He was unaware that removing the shroud can throw off zero.

They are addressing the non-ergonomic safety selector switch and redesigning it.

I mentioned that loading a full mag on a closed bolt is tough. He said "our policy is to load on an opened bolt" well no sh!t sherlock. thanks.

No one he knows has tried engaging anything at 200 yds. But their "tactical guy" has engaged steel man sized targets at 100 with the SBR.

One disconcerning thing I learned about the Kriss is the ammo issues. I told the guy I was using Winchester white Box. He said that he is one of the gunsmiths and they have had 4-5 cases where WWB has light loads and the round doesnt make it all the way out of the Carbine barrel. Then the owner fires the next round. I told him, "but WWB is approved on your list of ammo in the manual" his response is "that list is old" ok but there isnt an ammended list on the website. Well at least I know. But supposedly the warrant doesnt cover the kriss for a squibbed round. I dont think that is right. Im using ammo they said was approved. Granted it is Winchester's fault for quality assurance/control issues.

I then told Eotech about the elevation affecting my windage. "uh that is not normal" ok good so fix it. So now I have to wait for a return authorization. But according to the tech support, Eotechs should have independant adjustment.

Your experience with a relatively new platform is not unusual. However, having had the benefit of this class, and now aware of its shortcomings, you can work toward ironing them out and / or developing TTP's to deal with them.

Can you imagine how many gun owners who own XCR's, Masada's and SCAR's, etc., who have no idea what quirks their respective platforms may possess, and the consequences that may befall them if they ever have to rely on them for SD?

Anecdote: Giles Stock, the pistol instructor this past weekend was once contracted by Steyr to teach them how to "run their gun". They flew him to Austria and paid him to teach their staff how to manipulate / operate the Steyr AUG.

[Azzy]

Just reading through the aftermath of this class is a learning experience. I cant wait to take one.

[Solscud007]

Your experience with a relatively new platform is not unusual. However, having had the benefit of this class, and now aware of its shortcomings, you can work toward ironing them out and / or developing TTP's to deal with them.

Can you imagine how many gun owners who own XCR's, Masada's and SCAR's, etc., who have no idea what quirks their respective platforms may possess, and the consequences that may befall them if they ever have to rely on them for SD?

Anecdote: Giles Stock, the pistol instructor this past weekend was once contracted by Steyr to teach them how to "run their gun". They flew him to Austria and paid him to teach their staff how to manipulate / operate the Steyr AUG.

I met Giles briefly. Seems like a great guy. Very nice to talk to. He liked the fact that I was hitting 200 yd steel with 45acp haha. I find it funny that Steyr needed Giles' help. But after hearing Pete's talks about companies not know their asses from their elbows, im not all to surprised.

Many times an individual employee of a company doesnt know anything. They just work there. they may have some experiences working at the company but outside of this specific experiences, doesnt mean they know everything. Gather a whole bunch of them together and you have a bunch of people who think they know what they are talking about.

Granted my rifle is unique. There arent too many people voicing their personal experiences like I am. I know there are people out there with them. I had to go to Ohio to buy mine. All of PA was sold out. The Distributor, Accusport, was sold out. That tells me the few that were available for sale, are in private hands.

But I assume they are getting them for a different reason than me. I want to know my firearm in and out. Pete's class helped a lot with that aspect.

As Pete said "All one can do is to educate himself and work through the bugs on every piece of equipment before relying upon it."


Oh yeah for those who didnt know already, I posted pictures and an After Action Report.

http://forum.pafoa.org/training-tact...asics-aar.html

[ddog101775]

There's not a whole lot I can really add to what's already been said. I will say that after using irons the whole class, and then using an eotech for plinking with solscud's KRISS, a red dot makes a huge difference.

At the start of the class, finding that front site post took me a second or two. By the end, I could find that front site pretty easily. Then I used the KRISS. I raised that zip gun up, and the red dot was right there. I didn't need to search, or find it, it was just there. Very convenient, and very fast.

So now I'll be saving my money for an optic.

[Solscud007]

There's not a whole lot I can really add to what's already been said. I will say that after using irons the whole class, and then using an eotech for plinking with solscud's KRISS, a red dot makes a huge difference.

At the start of the class, finding that front site post took me a second or two. By the end, I could find that front site pretty easily. Then I used the KRISS. I raised that zip gun up, and the red dot was right there. I didn't need to search, or find it, it was just there. Very convenient, and very fast.

So now I'll be saving my money for an optic.

you wont regret it. I got lucky and got mine slightly used for $250 at Ace Sporting in Washington, PA.

Just look around. Check Gun Broker too.

[PeteG]

you wont regret it. I got lucky and got mine slightly used for $250 at Ace Sporting in Washington, PA.

Just look around. Check Gun Broker too.

E-Bay also has some deals sometimes.

The newer ones have incredible battery life, but are very expensive. Older aimpoints, some of which have 2 mil. dots and some of which have 4 mil. dots, don't have nearly the battery life, but they have hundreds of hours, which is plenty. We don't deploy 100 miles from supply. The batteries are about $3.00. I still use the ones I got in the mid-1990's, and they work just fine for me.

Don't get stuck on the "latest and the greatest." Let some other sucker lay out $450. You get his for $175 or $200, and it works just as well.

As for the irons, I think you will be much better off for the experience. Sure, the red-dots are much faster, and they are reliable, and I recommend them. But I also highly recommend knowing how to use the irons (by which I mean, having experience using the irons, not merely academic understanding of how they work).

[Solscud007]

E-Bay also has some deals sometimes.

The newer ones have incredible battery life, but are very expensive. Older aimpoints, some of which have 2 mil. dots and some of which have 4 mil. dots, don't have nearly the battery life, but they have hundreds of hours, which is plenty. We don't deploy 100 miles from supply. The batteries are about $3.00. I still use the ones I got in the mid-1990's, and they work just fine for me.

Don't get stuck on the "latest and the greatest." Let some other sucker lay out $450. You get his for $175 or $200, and it works just as well.

As for the irons, I think you will be much better off for the experience. Sure, the red-dots are much faster, and they are reliable, and I recommend them. But I also highly recommend knowing how to use the irons (by which I mean, having experience using the irons, not merely academic understanding of how they work).

actually I would be a little cautious when buying from ebay. there are plenty of airsoft fakes. really good ones. that "LOOK" just like the real thing. ecven switch from red to green reticles. Just dont want to pay good money for a bootleg.

I think the best way to know for sure is to have a look at the bottom. All eotechs have serial numbers. not familiar with trijicon or aimpoint but I assume they have serial numbers too. check with their respective companies.

i had to tell Eotech my serial number, it was checked and approved for my warranty repair. If they can check it for warranty repair, they can check if it is legit.

Im pretty sure the Knock off aimpoints and eotechs dont even have serial numbers.