Basic Tactical Carbine

[Guns4Fun]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.


One last question.

Are there any other hotels in the area? The reason i ask is because the ones posted on the site want $120 a night. It's gonna cost as much for a hotel as the class costs - and hell, i'm only going to be sleeping there. I was hoping to find something in the $60 / night range. Suggestions?

Thanks

EDIT - nevermind found one for $61 / night

[PeteG]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.


One last question.

Are there any other hotels in the area? The reason i ask is because the ones posted on the site want $120 a night. It's gonna cost as much for a hotel as the class costs - and hell, i'm only going to be sleeping there. I was hoping to find something in the $60 / night range. Suggestions?

Thanks

EDIT - nevermind found one for $61 / night

Do us a favor and post the name and phone number for the place. We are often asked this quesiton, and I want to be sure we have complete information.

[Guns4Fun]

As the saying goes, the check is in the mail. I'd guess you should have it buy Thursday at the latest. I hope you still have spots open.

[PeteG]

As the saying goes, the check is in the mail. I'd guess you should have it buy Thursday at the latest. I hope you still have spots open.

No worries. Carbine courses don't fill as quickly as hand gun courses (probably for all the reasons we saw on that long thread about training wtih a pistol vs. carbine).

The irony is, if one was to train with only one weapon, it should be a general purpose bolt gun. :-)

[Guns4Fun]

Okay, bringing it back up.

I've read many times where you guys don't think a whole lot about LBV's for civilians. I've also read the requirements for the class.

So, what do you suggest for a belt mag pouch? All my stuff is on a LBV and honestly, thats the only reloading i've practiced from. I do have some of these - will that be good enough or do you have other suggestions?

[TonyF]

Okay, bringing it back up.

I've read many times where you guys don't think a whole lot about LBV's for civilians. I've also read the requirements for the class.

So, what do you suggest for a belt mag pouch? All my stuff is on a LBV and honestly, thats the only reloading i've practiced from. I do have some of these - will that be good enough or do you have other suggestions?

Feel free to use any load carriage system you prefer. Our personal opinions relating to the practicality of contemporary load carriage systems for civilian use has nothing to do with whether or not they are suitable for use in our courses. That they adequately fulfill the role of carrying magazines is not in dispute.

You don't want to use that 1960's vintage LBE pouch.

[PeteG]

Okay, bringing it back up.

I've read many times where you guys don't think a whole lot about LBV's for civilians. I've also read the requirements for the class.

So, what do you suggest for a belt mag pouch? All my stuff is on a LBV and honestly, thats the only reloading i've practiced from. I do have some of these - will that be good enough or do you have other suggestions?

Huge subject.

Let me give the short answer here, and a longer answer in a separate post.

The M-16 pouches made for ALICE gear do NOT work well.

Open-topped magazine holders are best. There are a number of different manufacturers of these out of Kydex or ballistic nylon with stiffeners in them. My personal choice is the Wilderness pouches, as I have found that they never fail and I have a couple that have lasted 15 years. (www.thewilderness.com)

The back pocket of a roomy pair blue jeans also works pretty well. BDU pockets do not.

Why would you use either? That's what the course is for.

I will put my "rap" on equipment in a separate post, so the information is not lost within the bloviation.

[Kaos]

G4F:

I have a couple single mag open top pouch options I'd be glad to lend you for the course, I only live about 15 minutes from the club so it wouldn't be any trouble for me to swing by either way.

Tony - I'm still game for helping with set up/tear down pasting etc if you need it as well.

[TonyF]

Tony - I'm still game for helping with set up/tear down pasting etc if you need it as well.

You're certainly welcome to help and your assistance will be greatly appreciated.

[PeteG]

I've read many times where you guys don't think a whole lot about LBV's for civilians. . . .

All my stuff is on a LBV and honestly, thats the only reloading i've practiced from.

This raises a number of important subjects pertaining to training with a firearm.

I have often heard people say they intend to take a carbine course someday, but they are not "good enough yet." In this instance, you are expressing concern that you have not practiced a method you anticipate we will use. Both of these ideas misconstrue what we do.

We operate from the premise that everyone who shows up at a level I carbine course does not know how to carry, load, unload, reload or do anything else with the rifle. We start from "zero," and work forward. Therefore, if one is training or practicing to take a course, they are confused (at least with respect to a F.I.R.E. Institute course).

The truth is, everyone who shows up has some method of carrying, loading, unloading, reloading. Some are utterly incompetent, and some are quite accomplished. It doesn't matter. We still start from "zero." That way we are all on the same page. Those who know nothing get a clear path. Those who are accomplished have something to compare to what they knew when they got there, or can pick up on things they lost along the way. Those who are not accomplished but who wish to demonstrate otherwise usually get nothing at all out of the course.

Bring what you know. We'll work with it, and have some fun.

As for my views regarding LBV's, it will depend entirely upon what the individual wants to accomplish. First, foremost and always, I think people ought to use the right tool (equipment) for the job.

In that regard, one should not be equipping himself for the course; one should be equipping himself for his anticipated use of the rifle, and use that equipment in the course.

If one expects to operate away from supply for periods from a couple of hours to a couple of days, and/or if they expect they might get into a firefight or for some other reason need more than two magazines to deal with a problem, the LBV's are a pretty good solution. I will be pleased to offer whatever advice or instruction I can on how to efficiently put that piece of equipment to good use.

The idea that I "don't like" LBV's arises from my view that no private citizen is likely to operate a carbine in any environment in which a load bearing vest will not be a distraction or impediment.

Could there be exceptions? Yes. Post-disaster defense of those living in one's home might call for a protracted period of vigilance requiring more than two magazines. I do not believe in Zombie attacks or end-of-the-world scenarios. But regardless of my beliefs, it is certain that any and all such events combined are so extremely rare that I regard training for them to be a luxury in which one should indulge only after covering the basics. If one then has the time and budget to train for every eventuality, lucky them.

My oft repeated view is that equipment is about 5% of the equation, and it gets 80% of the time and attention. That is waaayyyy out of proportion.

The objective is control. Control derives from competence. As Clint Smith once famously said, "you can't buy competence."

One can, however, buy equipment.

The great majority of people who anticipate using a firearm for personal defense lack competence (of the sort derived from training and education and experience - a.k.a. work). It is emotionally uncomfortable to deal with the fact one is incompetent to protect themselves, so we “compensate.” (That is a psychological term of art.)

Specifically, people buy stuff to compensate for the fact they have no reason to believe they know how to use thier rifle, let alone fight with it. Then they discuss what they bought. Then they spend hours and hours insisting what they bought is better than what the other guy bought. And then upgrading ... putting ever-more-hi-tech spats on a hog. All of which misdirects attention away from the fact they don't know how to use their rifle, let alone fight with it.

There are vendors out there who take advantage of this human tendency toward self-deception. They gleefully feed the sickness with unrelenting, savage marketing and misinformation and hype. Then we have movies and TV, and schools which market the idea they are “more realistic,” know Jesus, or have discovered the magic ju-ju that somehow escaped the notice of the thousands of trainers who have preceded. In this environment, it is easy to become confused about what one actually needs.

My (weak and near-hopeless) response is to try and boil down what it is we will likely be dealing with should we ever be involved in a life-threatening confrontation. Taking out all the opinion and prediction I can, and relying upon history and logical tautology to the extent I can, I suggest the following will be true for any private citizen who has to protect his life with a firearm:

AXIOM 1:
IT WILL HAPPEN AT A TIME AND A PLACE WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT A GUN FIGHT. (One cannot make an appointment to have an emergency.)

AXIOM 2:
YOU WILL ALMOST NEVER KNOW MORE THAN A FEW SECONDS OR, AT BEST, A FEW MINUTES IN ADVANCE THAT TROUBLE HAS FOUND YOU. (If you had advance notice, you would have left by now.)

AXIOM 3:
IT WILL ALL BE OVER IN A FEW SECONDS. (Historic truth: the great majority of gunfights involving police are over in 7 to 10 seconds, and involve 1 to 3 rounds. There is no reason to believe private citizens will take longer or need more ammo; to the contrary.)

AXIOM 4:
IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO, YOU WILL NOT DO IT. (There is no magic. Unless you have worked to achieve a level of competence, you are incompetent. Sorry. This is not open to negotiation, it’s a fact of life.)

The question then becomes, how well an LBV (or suppressor, or flashlight, or drum-magazine, or harmonica) fit your needs under such circumstances.

I can show anyone how to use any of that stuff (except the harmonica). What is your pleasure?