Question on being disarmed...

[jahwarrior72]

Everyone, please try to be constructive in situations like this. Trolling and Name calling doesn't accomplish anything...now lets try again.

sorry Rocket, i was probably typing my last as you posted this.

[Wiley-X]

although i am clearly an uneducated 20 year old (even though my profile clearly states i'm in my late 30's)

Are you sure? I thought that you were about 22.

1. your initial post in this thread stated that arguing with police is ignorant and irresponsible. this is FAIL.

Don't know if it is ignorant or irresponsible but 99% of the time, it is futile. It's like a coach arguing with a ref at a basketball game, he may feel better after yelling at the ref but then he gets to sit down or even wait out the game in the locker room, so not only are you still stuck with the original foul or violation, now you have one or two Ts and your team suffers because you've been ejected.

It's not like he's being marched off to a death camp, if that was the case, sure make their life as difficult as you can.

They're going to take your gun whether you want them to or not. I don't care to lie on my face in the mud next to the road while some JBT cuffs me for "failure to obey." Sure I might win in court but I don't have the money for bail and I surely don't have the money to pay a good lawyer .

Sure we should all stand up for our rights but at this stage in my life, I'm not willing to get beat up and spend the night in jail just to prove a point.

Yes, I've argued with the police. Usually over traffic tickets when I knew that any ticket that they wrote wouldn't stick. Handcuffs? No danger. Being proned out? Not likely.

[jahwarrior72]

Are you sure? I thought that you were about 22.

my daughter keeps me youthful.

[jshwak]

although i am clearly an uneducated 20 year old (even though my profile clearly states i'm in my late 30's), i'll do my best to explain the magnitude of your failure. please bear with me, as my impeccable spelling and grammar, resulting from my clear lack of education, may confound you.

1. your initial post in this thread stated that arguing with police is ignorant and irresponsible. this is FAIL.

2. in the same post, you insulted the people who actually do assert their rights with LEO, by practically calling them crybabies and attention whores. there is a bit of FAIL in this, as well.

3. in your following post, you claimed you were not stopped for open carry, but for a MWAG call. silly wabbit, if that's the case, then you were stopped for open carry. you just don't understand it, or won't admit it. from where i stand, it appears that FAIL applies here.

4. when said FAILURES were noted, and called out, instead of refuting your FAIL with a clever anecdote, or another form of debate, you resorted to obscenities, and personal attacks. take note, i never insulted you personally. clearly, you're unable to articulate yourself in any meaningful way, or are simply angered that you know i'm right.

5. in a final, and legendary FAIL, you call me uneducated, even as you incorrectly spell words like "agian" (again), "waived" (waved), and "repsponse" (response), not to mention a host of grammatical errors.

as far as "being a pain in the ass to cops," if you feel inclined to let a bully in uniform knowingly violate your civil rights, be my guest. i honestly don't care if you do or not, but i do resent you calling people who refuse to be like you crybabies or attention whores.

in all the LEO contacts i've had, i was disarmed against my consent exactly once, and i made sure to raise a stink about it, until the lead officer involved received disciplinary action. if they feel it's okay to stop me and waste 15 minutes of my life, then i'll oblige them, and add on 15 minutes more of me being a pain in their ass, and consider continuing being a pain in their ass even after they've left, by marching right down to the precinct, and filing harrassment complaints.

like i said, if you think it's fine to let LEO walk all over you, you can at least do them the courtesy of carrying a bottle of KY lube in your pocket, so you don't bleed as much when they're done.

As opposed to a fail, this is an example of a win

[Curmudgeon]

although i am clearly an uneducated 20 year old (even though my profile clearly states i'm in my late 30's), i'll do my best to explain the magnitude of your failure. please bear with me, as my impeccable spelling and grammar, resulting from my clear lack of education, may confound you.

1. your initial post in this thread stated that arguing with police is ignorant and irresponsible. this is FAIL.

2. in the same post, you insulted the people who actually do assert their rights with LEO, by practically calling them crybabies and attention whores. there is a bit of FAIL in this, as well.

3. in your following post, you claimed you were not stopped for open carry, but for a MWAG call. silly wabbit, if that's the case, then you were stopped for open carry. you just don't understand it, or won't admit it. from where i stand, it appears that FAIL applies here.

4. when said FAILURES were noted, and called out, instead of refuting your FAIL with a clever anecdote, or another form of debate, you resorted to obscenities, and personal attacks. take note, i never insulted you personally. clearly, you're unable to articulate yourself in any meaningful way, or are simply angered that you know i'm right.

5. in a final, and legendary FAIL, you call me uneducated, even as you incorrectly spell words like "agian" (again), "waived" (waved), and "repsponse" (response), not to mention a host of grammatical errors.

as far as "being a pain in the ass to cops," if you feel inclined to let a bully in uniform knowingly violate your civil rights, be my guest. i honestly don't care if you do or not, but i do resent you calling people who refuse to be like you crybabies or attention whores.

in all the LEO contacts i've had, i was disarmed against my consent exactly once, and i made sure to raise a stink about it, until the lead officer involved received disciplinary action. if they feel it's okay to stop me and waste 15 minutes of my life, then i'll oblige them, and add on 15 minutes more of me being a pain in their ass, and consider continuing being a pain in their ass even after they've left, by marching right down to the precinct, and filing harrassment complaints.

<snip>

Agreed.

Initially, I was thinking you (gumbys1up) might have had an unpleasant experience with a LEO encounter, and that perhaps there was some way we could help. Which is why I asked for more information, more details.

I get angry when I hear of such abuses by those entrusted to uphold the laws and rights of all of us. Maybe you even detected that anger and thought it was somehow directed at you? I have no idea why, and I can not figure out why you thought this forum deserved such an outburst from you.

I find it rather curious that you save your best behavior and finest skills at surrender to those who LEOs who are abusing you, yet lash out with furious anger and righteous indignation at those who stand ready to help and support you.

I sincerely hope you are not given to these kinds of rages when out and about and off the internet.

"A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. " - John Stuart Mill

.

[Curmudgeon]

Don't know if it is ignorant or irresponsible but 99% of the time, it is futile. It's like a coach arguing with a ref at a basketball game, he may feel better after yelling at the ref but then he gets to sit down or even wait out the game in the locker room, so not only are you still stuck with the original foul or violation, now you have one or two Ts and your team suffers because you've been ejected.

It's not like he's being marched off to a death camp, if that was the case, sure make their life as difficult as you can.

They're going to take your gun whether you want them to or not. I don't care to lie on my face in the mud next to the road while some JBT cuffs me for "failure to obey." Sure I might win in court but I don't have the money for bail and I surely don't have the money to pay a good lawyer .

Sure we should all stand up for our rights but at this stage in my life, I'm not willing to get beat up and spend the night in jail just to prove a point.

Yes, I've argued with the police. Usually over traffic tickets when I knew that any ticket that they wrote wouldn't stick. Handcuffs? No danger. Being proned out? Not likely.

Sorry bud, I'm not buying a word of this demagoguery. I don't suppose you happen you have a citation for your 99% statistic? I'm betting, no.

As for the rest of it, all that is required is for a verbal refusal of consent (as opposed to refusing to comply, a serious tactical error) for anything you believe to be an action outside the law. Then you can follow up later with a phone call, a visit, a letter, a formal complaint, whatever you think is appropriate.

Naturally, there is no guarantee of results or satisfaction, sometimes it's just about doing the right thing and letting the chips fall where they may. Those who carry, open or concealed, are in a minority. But if enough of us follow up after experiencing a negative encounter, I really think we can make a difference.

Point of fact... there are already numerous examples of that right here among our own members. One only has to peruse forums like OpenCarry dot org to see that there are many others.

Of course, you are free to do as you see fit, I would not suggest otherwise. But it seems to me you are justifying your position with misinformation.

[RocketFoot]

although i am clearly an uneducated 20 year old (even though my profile clearly states i'm in my late 30's), i'll do my best to explain the magnitude of your failure. please bear with me, as my impeccable spelling and grammar, resulting from my clear lack of education, may confound you.

1. your initial post in this thread stated that arguing with police is ignorant and irresponsible. this is FAIL.

2. in the same post, you insulted the people who actually do assert their rights with LEO, by practically calling them crybabies and attention whores. there is a bit of FAIL in this, as well.

3. in your following post, you claimed you were not stopped for open carry, but for a MWAG call. silly wabbit, if that's the case, then you were stopped for open carry. you just don't understand it, or won't admit it. from where i stand, it appears that FAIL applies here.

4. when said FAILURES were noted, and called out, instead of refuting your FAIL with a clever anecdote, or another form of debate, you resorted to obscenities, and personal attacks. take note, i never insulted you personally. clearly, you're unable to articulate yourself in any meaningful way, or are simply angered that you know i'm right.

5. in a final, and legendary FAIL, you call me uneducated, even as you incorrectly spell words like "agian" (again), "waived" (waved), and "repsponse" (response), not to mention a host of grammatical errors.

as far as "being a pain in the ass to cops," if you feel inclined to let a bully in uniform knowingly violate your civil rights, be my guest. i honestly don't care if you do or not, but i do resent you calling people who refuse to be like you crybabies or attention whores.

in all the LEO contacts i've had, i was disarmed against my consent exactly once, and i made sure to raise a stink about it, until the lead officer involved received disciplinary action. if they feel it's okay to stop me and waste 15 minutes of my life, then i'll oblige them, and add on 15 minutes more of me being a pain in their ass, and consider continuing being a pain in their ass even after they've left, by marching right down to the precinct, and filing harrassment complaints.

like i said, if you think it's fine to let LEO walk all over you, you can at least do them the courtesy of carrying a bottle of KY lube in your pocket, so you don't bleed as much when they're done.

sorry Rocket, i was probably typing my last as you posted this.

No problem...this is what I was looking for...Constructive criticism! Good job! Much better than one line zingers...

Thanks!

[ShakeyDad]

Also sorry I wasn't stopped for OC'ing I should have said I was stopped because they had gotten a MWAG call. and I was walking down the street to the bus stop waiting for my old lady and they rolled up and I figured not to make a big scene. they really didn't give me any trouble or be dicks about it at all. they just wanted to make sure everything was legal and cool.

YES I KNOW I DON'T HAVE TO LET THEM DO THIS OR EVEN LET THEM KNOW MY NAME. I don't feel that I care that much and if it will make them STOP bothering me when they do see me then I say good because from now on when they roll by me they'll know "Hey that's Jonesy over there..he ain't doing nothing wrong, we know he OC's, he wasn't a dick about it like some so we'll leave him alone." And yes this has happened to me since i was stopped I had two seperate whitehall PD cars roll past me when I was ALONE in broad day light and they even waived. So ALTHOUGH THIS WORKS FOR ME. It may not for you.

Thank you for your clarification. Be good.

[t1m0thy]

What point is there in having rights if you don't exercise them? If someone can bully or intimidate you into giving up those rights did you even have them to begin with? Sometimes you have to stand up and get a little dirt under your fingernails or those who wantonly violate the rights of LAC's will gain the courage to continue doing so.

[normanvin]

What point is there in having rights if you don't exercise them? If someone can bully or intimidate you into giving up those rights did you even have them to begin with? Sometimes you have to stand up and get a little dirt under your fingernails or those who wantonly violate the rights of LAC's will gain the courage to continue doing so.

I agree. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who would rather roll over and play dead. It is inconvenient or I needed to be some place else or any of a million excuse / answers.