AK 47 Recoil echoing through stock?

[BandanaBandit1]

its telling you that you shouda bought the AR "DOII!"

[Asmodeus6]

Can I get some serious fucking responses please?

It's why I posted this in the smithing section and not the general rifle section. I would genuinely like some HELP with this issue.

It was funny when EM made the first poke at me. I know EM, he can say w/e the hell he wants to me - we have some history here and I'm fine with it. But the continued dumb shit - and inability to meet the basic reading requirement (such as; suggesting things I ALREADY SAID I DID) is getting annoying!

So. Can we all pull our shit together here for 5 minutes and give some real feed back or do I have to post it on a different forum so I can actually get help?

I want this resolved. If I'm such a big bitch I'll buy an ITC cheek rest, I already picked one out. However I would like to rule out if it's a physical problem with the rifle or not FIRST. Since it did not do this before, and a rifle twice as powerful or more (PSL) does not cause the same phenomenon.

THEN you can make fun of me and make whatever stupid comments you would all like to. I don't care. Issue first, peanut gallery follows. Otherwise STFU and GTFO. Seriously enough.

And AR "DOII!" what are you even saying? I own an AR15. Can you read?

[partsman]

you could try a new spring does the inside look like it is getting beat up ?

have you checked your stock? maybe it got loose or moved around somehow.
it could also just be the cold causing an iratation with your face.........

[Emptymag]

Have you asked anyone else to shoot it to see if they notice the same thing happening?

If you want, I can meet you and give it a try. I'm not working, so pretty much any day/time would work.

If the parts are interchangeable, you could swap things from my WASR to test whatever theories you come up with.

[mak47]

I think it's probably a combination of things.

First, you did get used to shooting the AR. The way you position your face on that gun as compared to an AK is totally different, and the ergonomics of the stock are totally different--especially with a Bulgy AK stock.

You'll notice if you look at your AK stock that there (damn this is hard to explain in writing) is a dip coming back from where it attaches to the trunnion, and then it slopes up as it goes to the back of the stock. On many (if not all) Bulgy polymer stocks, that slope tends to not be very gradual and almost comes to a point right about where you might position your cheek. If the recoil of the rifle is digging that part into your face, it will hurt like a bitch.

You may not have noticed that before you adapted to shooting the AR.

Someone else mentioned that the stock may be loose. This could certainly cause some movement in the stock under recoil--but I'd think you'd notice that. Double check your screws and make sure they're tight to rule this out.

A recoil spring going bad could be contributing to the problem, that's a good call. Throw one in from one of your other AK's and see if it feels better before going out and buying another one. They're all fairly similar.

You also mentioned that you've resupplied on ammo. Any chance that it's different from what you shot before? Typical Wolf/Barnaul type FMJ ammo isn't loaded particularly hot, so if what you have now is, this could be contributing as well.

My understanding is that most 7.62x39 milsurp is loaded hotter, and that stuff has been popular as of late.

Another thought, if you're shooting any of the "Bear" ammo. Barnaul makes hunting loads for their Brown Bear and Silver Bear lines, usually with a heavy soft point bullet. If you've ever shot that, you'll know it packs a little punch.

It is entirely possible that even if your'e shooting regular FMJ ammo, that there was a mixup at the plant. What if they loaded the FMJ bullets with the hunting powder charges? Something like that would probably affect entire cases of ammo, is an entirely plausible mistake, and would kick the crap out of your gun while shooting (and in theory your face).

While this is somewhat unlikely, it's worth trying some different ammo just to rule it out.

Other than that? Hell if I know!

Good luck

[Asmodeus6]

Thanks for the real feedback. I was starting to lose my cool there with the retarded posts.

The only ammo I know shoots softer is the Brown Bear FMJ. That shit is not only pisses me off because it "sometimes" uses corrosive primers in "non-corrosive" marked commercial ammo. It generally sucks pecker. I shot the last of it on that outing and that was partially the reason for burning it up. I don't want to sit on any of it, and I don't want any of it mixed into mags sitting - etc. The hotshot is stinky stuff. I got a batch that was pretty foul even by Russian standards - innaccurate, and fairly under powered with all kinds mixed in there that shot noticeably different. The second tin I bought was all about the same, and about as powerful as what I perceive to be the upper end of Wolf Black Box spectrum. (At least by my shoulder chrono [see also; butt dyno] ) And I believe what was in those last 2 mags. I don't buy it any more because it's not really available like it was 2-3 years ago. And it's spotty performance, stench, and extra filth. This stuff was hotter than the BBB FMJ no question. But isn't like Yugo milsurp I don't think. It was tinned ammo, but in paper boxes with flags on them and English writing. So IMO it's not military ammo. Who knows though?

As far as me putting my face on the stock someplace different it's possible but I'm no where near the upwards rake in the top of the stock. I know EXACTLY what you are saying MAK47 and I shouldered the rifle 20 times randomly to see if I put my face in that no no position. I don't. The most forward part of my face is still about 1/2" back. So I'm not on that point. And that includes really leaning in with a forward hold and nestling down on the sights pretty good as well.

Next up, the stock is not loose at all. In fact I cannot remove it. Whenever TGI installed it they must have done so with a fork lift on a crooked receiver with shark teeth inside it. It doesn't even budge with a rubber hammer beating on it. I have tried to remove it on 2 occassions just to SEE if I could and came to the conclusion this rifle will always have this stock on it. (Funny side note is the tang screw on the PSL WAS loose however and it still made no difference in the recoil on my face. I noticed that when I broke it down for cleaning!)

Ok ammo, I'll cover that again. I shot;
Barnaul Brown Bear 12X gr FMJ
Wolf Poly Performance (black box) 123gr HP
Wolf Military Classic 124gr JHP (new poly coating no sealer)
Hot Shot 12X gr FMJ
Wolf Military Classic 124gr JHP. (8M3 laquer / sealer)

About in that order and all my new ammo is Wolf Military Classic 124gr JHP. I see absolutely no point in buying anything else whatsoever. You can't hunt in PA with an AK, and it's the cheapest most effective HP available. It busts up concrete just like a FMJ so there's no reason to stock both. (IMO)

As for the spring I really don't know how to tell if it's beat so here's what I did. I just compressed both springs into the bolt carrier (parts installed in the rifle still) by grasping them with my thumb and forefinger at the back and the AMD65 spring seems a little bit more tensioned. IDK if they are the same exactly since they have different length pistons and gas tubes... but the spring seems more taught on the AMD65. Keep in mind this is a real 12" SBR with an extension welded on - not a 16" barreled weapon like the Romanian so I don't know if that changes the original spring pressure.

It also makes sense since the Romanian has 4-5x the amount of rounds through it if not more. I think I maybe have 500rds through the AMD and a few thousand through the Romanian. Maybe it is just whooped. But 2-3k rounds is the service life on an AK spring? Meh... really?

Solutions so far IMO are Wolff +10% recoil spring.
Buying a cheek rest from ITC for $30 and not worrying about it.
Or both

[762xIan]

Before you go and buy springs, have you ever removed and cleaned the gas tube?

Having shot (and own) a multitude of AK and variants over the years, the one thing I would never say or describe is that the AK recoil is hard.

When a gas piston operated rifle is recoiling hard like a FAL...you adjust the gas system bleed.

For a Garand, it is most likely the wrong ammo, which could lead to a bent op-rod.

For an AK, could the recoil spring be shot? Sure, but I never thought AK springs were all that powerful in any of my rifles. I can remove the spring assembly with 2 fingers and minimal pressure. I would remove and clean the gas tube first. It may well be full of carbon and not venting and bleeding off gas right, causing the piston to recoil more than usual.

I don't clean my AK gas tubes every time I shoot, every 2nd or 3rd shoot, I check the holes, and run a shotgun brush through it, and NO LUBE in the gas system. Lube will make even more carbon deposits.

[Asmodeus6]

Before you go and buy springs, have you ever removed and cleaned the gas tube?

Having shot (and own) a multitude of AK and variants over the years, the one thing I would never say or describe is that the AK recoil is hard.

When a gas piston operated rifle is recoiling hard like a FAL...you adjust the gas system bleed.

For a Garand, it is most likely the wrong ammo, which could lead to a bent op-rod.

For an AK, could the recoil spring be shot? Sure, but I never thought AK springs were all that powerful in any of my rifles. I can remove the spring assembly with 2 fingers and minimal pressure. I would remove and clean the gas tube first. It may well be full of carbon and not venting and bleeding off gas right, causing the piston to recoil more than usual.

I don't clean my AK gas tubes every time I shoot, every 2nd or 3rd shoot, I check the holes, and run a shotgun brush through it, and NO LUBE in the gas system. Lube will make even more carbon deposits.

I clean the gas system every time I clean the rifle with a shotgun brush, both the tube and gas block with solvent and I roll up a shop towel and push it through with a dowel to make sure it is clean. I then shove the towel in the gas block and wipe out whatever I broke up with the brush. And then clean the bore.

I have a vented gas block not tube. But I don't see fouling blocking holes that size. They are far too big and it's high pressure gas escaping. If anything was getting blocked I would think it would be the hole in the barrel inside the gas block where I can't get to - but that would cause a short stroking / under gassed symptom I would think instead.

I would actually like to try a vented gas tube as well. Or get a spare I can drill holes in to see if it softens up any. I doubt it since once the piston passes the gas block the moment of force is pretty much over. But I'd still be willing to try it.

I ordered a Wolf +10% spring already. I ordered it shortly after my last post. It was only $15 and it gives me another avenue. The cheek rest is next and then I will just assume I put my face on the stock differently somehow that makes it eat my face where it didn't before / oh well.

[762xIan]

Aww Crap, it was worth a shot for an idea anyway. You always hope it is something simple before you have to buy parts.

Keep the thread updated anyway, I am curious how this works out for you.

[Enfielder]

In the early days of my AK shooting (Romy G with original Romy stock) I tried putting my cheek weld on the comb and I thought "wow I really have to scrunch my face down & smash my cheek into the stock to get the sight picture"

My cheek bone (Zygomatic bone, temporal process http://www.upstate.edu/cdb/grossanat...llantzb2.shtml) got whacked to soreness.

Then I moved it up to where the dip in the stock rises up to the comb. My nose was right over the tang screw.

With that "nose to the tang cheek weld" - no more pain.