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March 1st, 2010, 10:09 AM #1
Legal Eagles: Church w/ a Pre-School
Assume that PA Title 18, Chapter 9, Subsection 912 is in effect, even if it's a Sunday and no classes are in session?
Wife and I are scoping out new churches, and two of the ones on our list have attached pre-schools, so just want to be sure. Thanks...
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March 1st, 2010, 10:33 AM #2
Re: Legal Eagles: Church w/ a Pre-School
Yeah, we all want to be sure, but that isn't possible in this state yet.
Another discussion on the topic:
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/556...re-page-2.html
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty
than to those attending too small a degree of it."~Thomas Jefferson, 1791
Hobson fundraiser Remember SFN Read before you Open Carry
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March 1st, 2010, 10:44 AM #3
Re: Legal Eagles: Church w/ a Pre-School
Yeah, that's what I figured. Thanks for the link.
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March 2nd, 2010, 03:00 AM #4
Re: Legal Eagles: Church w/ a Pre-School
Heck, I can't think of a church in my local area that does NOT have a school of some grade level attached. Possibly a couple I guess out of dozens of churches.
No one wants to be a test case for sure. Eventually, I am afraid that something bad will happen at a PA church and a parishioner with a LTCF will intervene and we will have the test case. Until then I believe that concealed MEANS concealed for sure.
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March 2nd, 2010, 08:38 AM #5
Re: Legal Eagles: Church w/ a Pre-School
Here is the statute from the link previously posted (bold is mine)
§ 912. Possession of weapon on school property.
1. Definition. -- Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
2. Offense defined. -- A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
3. Defense. -- It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.
ADIVSORY NOTE: At the time of this update, there has been thus far no court cases interpreting "possessed for other lawful purpose" insofar as applied to those licensed under §6109, exempted under §6106(b), or open carrying on foot without the benefit of being licensed or exempted on school grounds. However, common sense would dictate that if "self defense" is a valid and lawful reason for purpose of obtaining a PA LTCF than it should also be a "lawful purpose" per this statute's exceptions.
Power always thinks...that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws.
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March 2nd, 2010, 11:14 AM #6
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March 2nd, 2010, 11:21 AM #7
Re: Legal Eagles: Church w/ a Pre-School
Based on previous discussions on the topic, it's possible that any church which runs, or allows a private entity to run, a preschool registered with the state's DoE could be considered school property for the purposes of the statute regarding unlawful carry. In addition, it's also possible that our state issued LTCF meets the exception in the law. We just don't know for sure, as there has been no legal cases which test the law, or require the courts to publish an opinion on the law.
If you want to be able to carry in such situations (and don't want to be a test case), the safest bet is to find a church which doesn't have a preschool.Last edited by ChamberedRound; March 2nd, 2010 at 11:23 AM.
"Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
-Charlton Heston
"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
-James Madison, Federalist Papers, No. 46.
"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." [sic]
-John Quincy Adams
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
-Thomas Jefferson
Μολών λαβέ!
-King Leonidas
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March 5th, 2010, 02:39 PM #8
Re: Legal Eagles: Church w/ a Pre-School
Found the PA DoE's site where you can search to see if the school attached to a church in question is licensed:
http://www.education.state.pa.us/por...stitution/7205
So far, I've got two hits on two attempts... *sigh* And my wife and I like both churches, too...
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March 5th, 2010, 02:59 PM #9
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March 6th, 2010, 11:36 AM #10
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