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  1. #1
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    Default Anyone see about the shooting in Altoona?

    Witness: Shooting was self-defense
    By Greg Bock, gbock@altoonamirror.com
    POSTED: February 26, 2010


    A Blair County man charged with attempted murder was acting in self-defense, said a witness to Wednesday night's shooting outside an East End bar.

    Police contend Alvin C. Zimmerman, 38, of 614 Third Ave., Duncansville, committed a crime when he shot one of two men who had followed him outside the Kettle Inn on South Kettle Street shortly after 10 p.m.

    Zimmerman and another man were leaving the bar after a pool match when two men began shouting homosexual slurs at them, court documents state. Minutes later, Zimmerman was in handcuffs and another man was headed to the Altoona Regional Trauma Center, where he remained in serious condition Thursday after emergency surgery to remove a bullet from his abdomen.

    Tony DeAntonio, who was there for his pool league, said he was leaving the bar at the same time and said the two men shouted obscenities as they followed Zimmerman and the other man outside.

    DeAntonio, 21, said the man who was eventually shot stood in front of his vehicle as he tried to pull out, yelled for him to "get out of your truck" and was even throwing chunks of ice at Zimmerman.

    "It was self-defense," DeAntonio said. "Al's just trying to get out of there. Nobody wanted to fight."

    Zimmerman and the other man tried to leave, but Zimmerman pulled out his .32-caliber Kel-Tec handgun from his front pocket after one of the two men punched his friend, who then also pulled out a gun, court documents state.

    "Go ahead and shoot me," is what one of the men allegedly shouted over and over as he walked toward Zimmerman, court documents state. Zimmerman was backing away and fired a warning shot at the ground, police said, but the man kept coming. So Zimmerman shot him.

    Even after the man was shot, he tried getting up and limped toward Zimmerman, DeAntonio said.

    Zimmerman immediately called 911, as did the gunshot victim's companion. When officers arrived, Zimmerman turned over his gun and was taken into custody, court documents state.

    Zimmerman has been charged with attempted homicide, aggravated assault, simple assault, terroristic threats, recklessly endangering another person and discharging a firearm within Altoona city limits. He was released from Blair County Prison Thursday after posting $30,000 of his $300,000 bail.

    A preliminary hearing is scheduled Wednesday in Central Court


    http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/co...1.html?nav=742

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Anyone see about the shooting in Altoona?

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers View Post
    Zimmerman has been charged with attempted homicide, aggravated assault, simple assault, terroristic threats, recklessly endangering another person and discharging a firearm within Altoona city limits. He was released from Blair County Prison Thursday after posting $30,000 of his $300,000 bail.
    Seems like Altoona is following the Philly model of charging the victim and releasing the criminal. This shit has to get stopped.

    I whole-heartedly believe in the phrase that "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carrier by six" but our police officers need to actually do their job and realize that the shooter isn't always going to be the criminal.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Anyone see about the shooting in Altoona?

    Edited: proofreading

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers View Post

    DeAntonio, 21, said the man who was eventually shot stood in front of his vehicle as he tried to pull out, yelled for him to "get out of your truck" and was even throwing chunks of ice at Zimmerman.
    Why the heck did he get out of his truck? His life wouldn't have been in danger (most likely) if he had not of left the safety of the truck. Sounds like a piece of the story is missing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers View Post
    "It was self-defense," DeAntonio said. "Al's just trying to get out of there. Nobody wanted to fight."
    This is why I don't "believe" in the opinion of the general public.....IF this happened exactly as stated, why can't anyone involved here piece together as to why this whole thing was wrong? He never should have gotten out of this truck and this witness is giving a typical general public-style opinion. How is it self defense? Or I should say...how was his life in danger while he was in his truck? Either this guy really messed up or we are missing part of the story. As the great Benjaman Franklin said (paraphrased) just because the general public thinks something to be right, doesn't mean it is.
    Not that I agree with liberal control methods, but I do understand it. Your average person is simply just too dumb.........and that includes me too. I'm an average person, I'm not claiming to be perfect.



    Quote Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers View Post
    Zimmerman and the other man tried to leave, but Zimmerman pulled out his .32-caliber Kel-Tec handgun from his front pocket after one of the two men punched his friend, who then also pulled out a gun, court documents state.
    Whoa whoa,... how did we get to this point? Left a bit of the story out?


    Quote Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers View Post
    "Go ahead and shoot me," is what one of the men allegedly shouted over and over as he walked toward Zimmerman, court documents state. Zimmerman was backing away and fired a warning shot at the ground, police said, but the man kept coming. So Zimmerman shot him.Even after the man was shot, he tried getting up and limped toward Zimmerman, DeAntonio said.
    This is why if you plan on shooting someone... you shoot to put them down. Just flashing a gun only works on cowards. Your average "tough guy", drunk, redneck, moron, does not care you have a gun. So if you have to shoot, you have to shoot to kill or stop them. If heard that line a million times watching cop videos and even heard of people saying it in person. For whatever reason, tough guy mode kicks in and your all of the sudden not afraid of being shot with a gun.


    This whole post is based on assuming this news article is correct.


    Apparently law enforcement doesn't feel him to be too much of a danger or flight risk because they let him out on bail. Sounds like the guy that got shot was being a total idiot. However, I don't see anywhere where this shooting was justified in my opinion.
    Last edited by Franky4Fingers; February 26th, 2010 at 04:34 AM. Reason: proofreading

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Anyone see about the shooting in Altoona?

    The account is a little confusing. Was the defendant in his truck ready to pull away and did he get out again?

    More facts, more facts.....

    Please keep us updated if you can. It is an interesting case.

    Apparently with the initial charge prosecutors are not going with "self defense".

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Anyone see about the shooting in Altoona?

    Wow, I'm on the "why did you get out of your car" side of the question. All of that steel and glass there to protect you, a horn, probably cell phones to call and record with, crowded area in which to attract attention.......... Need more facts, yes we do, but golly, this seems like it will get worse (for the shooter) before it gets better.

    Like they say: Definition of Stress: when the mind overrules the body's keen desire to kick the crap out of (or shoot?) some a**hole who desperately deserved it.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Anyone see about the shooting in Altoona?

    should have sat in the truck & called police. If no working cell phone was available then maybe yell for someone to call for him or try to drive away... slowly proceeding may have pushed the agressor to step aside or at least if the guy got run over it would have shown an attempt to flee without hurting the person if they were to step aside but since they refused, they got hurt.

    It's tough to know what is going thru someone's mind when it comes to how they felt about their life being in danger at that particular time.

    I had one incident where I was being fired at and while my hand went to the grip, I didn't reach the point of feeling the need to draw my gun...

    A few weeks later I was accosted/harassed by a group of young men on the highway and I felt endangered enough that I covertly unholstered but did not display my gun.

    the difference:
    I had time to reflect on incident 1 after the fact which apparently had an effect on the what if factor in my decision making process for incident 2

    incident 1 involved one guy whom I knew for sure was armed, and I had taken cover and was aware of my options and was ready for him if he approached or proceeded to a better vantage point to hit me. incident 2 involved 4 guys in a car & I had no idea if a gun was going to pop up at any moment & start firing at me from the next lane or not, and I couldn't just duck down at over 65 miles an hour.

    if incident 1 would not have happened would I have acted differently in incident 2? I'm not sure but my guess is yes. Actions are driven by beliefs formed by experiences.


    right or wrong, maybe this guy felt his life was in danger. we will never know for surewhat HIS feeling was at the time.

    If I were on his jury, based upon what is written in the article in the OP, I'd probably buy his I felt my life was in danger defense if that were used, but yes he had other options and should have used them so as a result he's probably going to get convicted.
    Let us never forget the sacrifice of those who have fought for us all.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Anyone see about the shooting in Altoona?

    A little quick to judge, are we, boyos?

    There are very few "facts" presented here. Actually, just one - one dude shot another dude. Eyewitness testimony is THE most unreliable evidence, and yet jurors and the public will put the most weight behind it. An account of what one witness claims gets even more mucked up when it gets translated into a newspaper story by a reporter.

    There could be dozens of reasons why the guy got out of his truck, some or none of which may be good enough for you. We'll see when more facts are released.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Anyone see about the shooting in Altoona?

    At what point do we stop blaming people who are just trying to go on with their lives, when they defend themselves from people who insist on attacking them? He should have stayed in the truck? Maybe it would have afforded him protection, or maybe it would have severely limited his maneuverability. From the little information we have, the aggressor was already throwing things at the truck. I've seen BBs shatter vehicle windows. You think ice won't do it? At what point do we stop forcing people to cower and beg, right up until there is just a fraction of a second between the time the aggressor crosses some imaginary line from threat to life threatening threat? The guy didn't go right for the gun. He tried to disengage. Then when they started physically assaulting his companion, the guns came out. Even then they warned the aggressors off, only to receive a GFY in reply. A shot in the dirt did nothing to dissuade them, then one of them got shot. Too fucking bad.

    He should have stayed in his truck? What about the asshole aggressor should have let him go on his way? What about the asshole aggressor should have not been an asshole to the point of making someone feel the need to add a hole in his body?

    Even legally this is muddled. Would staying in the truck have afforded him complete safety? I doubt it.

    According to the information given, he shouldn't have been charged, he should have been comforted. At some point the knowledge that he was going to have to shoot this guy was realised. He did what he thought he could to make that not happen, but the guy was insistent. One can only hope none of you are ever put in a similar situation, one that is not so cut and dry as being against a brick wall in a dead-end alley, with no where to go, and multiple attackers advancing on you with bats. At what point will you decide that you have had enough of the aggressor's actions? When they yank you out of the truck window and beat you to the verge of unconsciousness? When they start touching your girl's private areas? When they simply threaten to do so, and start to advance on you when you know you have no means to stop them except your gun?

    The asshole deserved to get shot. More assholes deserve to get shot. As the asshole population dwindles, so will the need to shoot assholes.

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty
    than to those attending too small a degree of it."~Thomas Jefferson, 1791
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Anyone see about the shooting in Altoona?

    Quote Originally Posted by headcase View Post
    At what point do we stop blaming ... ?

    The asshole deserved to get shot. More assholes deserve to get shot. As the asshole population dwindles, so will the need to shoot assholes.
    Clear, concise, and valid. And I agree with thinning the herd. Rep sent.

    Flash
    "The life unexamined is not worth living." ....... Socrates

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Anyone see about the shooting in Altoona?

    Quote Originally Posted by headcase View Post
    At what point do we stop blaming people who are just trying to go on with their lives, when they defend themselves from people who insist on attacking them?

    At what point do we stop forcing people to cower and beg, right up until there is just a fraction of a second between the time the aggressor crosses some imaginary line from threat to life threatening threat?

    According to the information given, he shouldn't have been charged, he should have been comforted.

    At what point will you decide that you have had enough of the aggressor's actions? When they yank you out of the truck window and beat you to the verge of unconsciousness? When they start touching your girl's private areas? When they simply threaten to do so, and start to advance on you when you know you have no means to stop them except your gun?

    The asshole deserved to get shot. More assholes deserve to get shot. As the asshole population dwindles, so will the need to shoot assholes
    .
    +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000


    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to headcase again.

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