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  1. #21
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    Default Re: My concealed carry permit applictaion was denied???

    Quote Originally Posted by 40calkid View Post
    I bought my handgun about 2 weeks ago and everything was fine with my background check. I sent my app. for concealed carry 7 days ago and i got a letter today saying my app. was denied or classified as undetermined but thats all the letter said it didnt give me any reason at all as to why it was denied. I have a clean adult record. But when i was under 18 i had a couple underage drinking charges and a marijuana charge but i was never convicted of a felony or ever spent any time in jail and this was all before i turned 18. i was in the army and had a general discharge on good conditions. i have an appeal that im sending out today but i need some guidance on why i would be denied my permit but allowed to buy a gun??
    Quote Originally Posted by 40calkid View Post
    ok customloaded im not on here to make enemies and im not a young punk. like you have imaged in your stereotypical head. Well Sir, I'm not here to make enemies either and I'll admit I am rough. And you may well be a great guy and an awesome dude and all that jazz but by your own admission, you have a demonstrated documented history of at least five years worth of criminal activity and less than honorable military service record. Forgive me is I am suspect for wanting you to have a loaded firearm on your person in public. The State legislature made standards for a reason. Reward those who are good law abiding citizens and deny those who are not. Pretty simple. i was miss treated in the army and opted to be discharged after my tour in Afghanistan. My marijuana charge from when i was 15 was actually paraphernalia and i was escorting a case of beer in a backpack to a friends house witch was 21. that was the only trouble i was ever in and as far as drinking and driving goes I would never get behind the wheel after drinking and I am a very responsible person. So if your not going to give me answers to my posted question and bash me then get off my post. for the previously asked questions i will post a scanned copy
    Ok, the short answer to your question is: The requirements to possess a LTCF is more stringent than to merely own a firearm. You know, higher standards!!!

    I see some folks don't like my previous post. Fine...here's why:

    1) Age 15-Drug paraphernalia
    2) Possesion of alcohol by minor
    3) At least age 18 and joined the Army and was treated badly by an employer resulting in him receiving a less than honorable discharge.

    He states he is not a young punk. Fine, I'll go with it. I think all criminals should have full rights to protect themselves, after a demonstrated period of favorable character performance...like I said, if he's under 25, then no LTCF until he's 35. Plenty of time to either meet the challenge of being a good citizen or not. I'm not saying he should not be allowed to own firearms. I have always said that any criminal should have full rights restored but ten years after finishing their final sentence so a demonstrable time of favorable charactor assessment can be made. I think thats fair. At what juncture do we not uphold legal standards?

    We have at least three years of documented and admitted criminal activity.
    Age 15 through under 18... thats 15, 16, and 17.
    The inability to function after intense screening, testing, and training. So he was basically fired ie... General under honorable conditions.

    Within the first couple posts you said A COUPLE underage drinking citations or possession, now it's just one? Which is it? One or two? You first state a Marijuanna possession and now its just paraphanalia. Which is it?
    Are you now misleading this thread and those who are following it?

    I'm be blunt. I don't see your character as being worthy of having a LTCF. Plain and simple. A number of arrests and convictions, at least 18 months, if not 2 plus years of military service and couldn't or wouldn't perform. So you were fired.

    I'm not saying you can't own firearms. I'm not saying you shouldn't EVER be allowed to have a LTCF. What I'm saying is, in my eyes, based on your own admission, I agree with the denial you received.

    You were treated badly....boo freakin hoo....everybody is treated badly at some point or another by somebody...employer, loved one, friend, etc...man up!!!
    For those of you who don't know how the US Army has worked the last several years, I'll clue ya in.

    Initial recruiting and training...personal interview, background check, for this guy, waivers for his convictions signed off by a general officer as we understand kids make mistakes...ASVAB test, screening with doctors, paralegals, career counselors etc...then he's shipped to a reception unit where he does his initial US Army incoming stuff. More medical exams, shots, dental, forms and more forms, clothing, etc..etc...etc...
    Then however long basic training is these days....drill sergeants, platoon sergeants, 1SG's, Lt's, Captians, instructors at various training sites...Total time in military, 3 to 4 months.
    Then AIT, more of the same as above and graduation. Another 3 or 4 months minimum and shipped to their unit. Training for deployment. Corporals, sergeants, and Lt's and captains again...some rotating out, some geting out, some new coming in, constant change...Another 3 or 4 monhs, usually longer...then we'll assume a one year deployment. Then come home, debriefing, and more medical, dental, health assessments, mental health etc... then back to the unit and sit around and wait for 2 or 3 months as personnel rotate out and new come in.

    At some point, with all the personnel changes, someone would have given the OP a break. They couldn't all treat him like dirt. Hell, even if he had a drug or alcohol problem, The Army spends millions treating it. Mandatory counseling, AA/NA meetings, prescription drugs so you get sick if you drink while in the program...mental health counselors, drug and alcohol awareness training, counseling etc.. etc.. etc...No soldier is discharged on a first offense these days. You have to quit yourself to have the Army quit you. So all these diffenent corporals, sergeants, staff sergeants, Senior Sergeants, Lt's, Captains, and LT. Colonels all treated OP badly on a rotating basis? Hog wash.

    You can bullshit the people here about how you deserve a LTCF at this point in your life but I support the letter of denial.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: My concealed carry permit applictaion was denied???

    Quote Originally Posted by customloaded View Post
    Ok, the short answer to your question is: The requirements to possess a LTCF is more stringent than to merely own a firearm. You know, higher standards!!!

    I see some folks don't like my previous post. Fine...here's why:

    1) Age 15-Drug paraphernalia
    2) Possesion of alcohol by minor
    3) At least age 18 and joined the Army and was treated badly by an employer resulting in him receiving a less than honorable discharge.

    He states he is not a young punk. Fine, I'll go with it. I think all criminals should have full rights to protect themselves, after a demonstrated period of favorable character performance...like I said, if he's under 25, then no LTCF until he's 35. Plenty of time to either meet the challenge of being a good citizen or not. I'm not saying he should not be allowed to own firearms. I have always said that any criminal should have full rights restored but ten years after finishing their final sentence so a demonstrable time of favorable charactor assessment can be made. I think thats fair. At what juncture do we not uphold legal standards?

    We have at least three years of documented and admitted criminal activity.
    Age 15 through under 18... thats 15, 16, and 17.
    The inability to function after intense screening, testing, and training. So he was basically fired ie... General under honorable conditions.

    Within the first couple posts you said A COUPLE underage drinking citations or possession, now it's just one? Which is it? One or two? You first state a Marijuanna possession and now its just paraphanalia. Which is it?
    Are you now misleading this thread and those who are following it?

    I'm be blunt. I don't see your character as being worthy of having a LTCF. Plain and simple. A number of arrests and convictions, at least 18 months, if not 2 plus years of military service and couldn't or wouldn't perform. So you were fired.

    I'm not saying you can't own firearms. I'm not saying you shouldn't EVER be allowed to have a LTCF. What I'm saying is, in my eyes, based on your own admission, I agree with the denial you received.

    You were treated badly....boo freakin hoo....everybody is treated badly at some point or another by somebody...employer, loved one, friend, etc...man up!!!
    For those of you who don't know how the US Army has worked the last several years, I'll clue ya in.

    Initial recruiting and training...personal interview, background check, for this guy, waivers for his convictions signed off by a general officer as we understand kids make mistakes...ASVAB test, screening with doctors, paralegals, career counselors etc...then he's shipped to a reception unit where he does his initial US Army incoming stuff. More medical exams, shots, dental, forms and more forms, clothing, etc..etc...etc...
    Then however long basic training is these days....drill sergeants, platoon sergeants, 1SG's, Lt's, Captians, instructors at various training sites...Total time in military, 3 to 4 months.
    Then AIT, more of the same as above and graduation. Another 3 or 4 months minimum and shipped to their unit. Training for deployment. Corporals, sergeants, and Lt's and captains again...some rotating out, some geting out, some new coming in, constant change...Another 3 or 4 monhs, usually longer...then we'll assume a one year deployment. Then come home, debriefing, and more medical, dental, health assessments, mental health etc... then back to the unit and sit around and wait for 2 or 3 months as personnel rotate out and new come in.

    At some point, with all the personnel changes, someone would have given the OP a break. They couldn't all treat him like dirt. Hell, even if he had a drug or alcohol problem, The Army spends millions treating it. Mandatory counseling, AA/NA meetings, prescription drugs so you get sick if you drink while in the program...mental health counselors, drug and alcohol awareness training, counseling etc.. etc.. etc...No soldier is discharged on a first offense these days. You have to quit yourself to have the Army quit you. So all these diffenent corporals, sergeants, staff sergeants, Senior Sergeants, Lt's, Captains, and LT. Colonels all treated OP badly on a rotating basis? Hog wash.

    You can bullshit the people here about how you deserve a LTCF at this point in your life but I support the letter of denial.
    Rep sent.

    10 damn char.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: My concealed carry permit applictaion was denied???

    Quote Originally Posted by customloaded View Post
    Lots of words I refuse to read
    Why do you hate freedom?


    Serious question.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: My concealed carry permit applictaion was denied???

    Now that customloaded's expanded in quite some detail about his reasoning, I gotta say I agree with him and every point he made. You make some mistakes, you suck it up , take your lumps , hopefully learn something from it and move on with life. Its called taking responsibility for your actions, unfortunately more often then not, poor choices have adverse consequences as the OP is learning.

    Rep sent
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud

    Proud to be an Enemy of The State

  5. #25
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    Default Re: My concealed carry permit applictaion was denied???

    Quote Originally Posted by son of the revolution View Post
    Now that customloaded's expanded in quite some detail about his reasoning, I gotta say I agree with him and every point he made. You make some mistakes, you suck it up , take your lumps , hopefully learn something from it and move on with life. Its called taking responsibility for your actions, unfortunately more often then not, poor choices have adverse consequences as the OP is learning.

    Rep sent
    Did customloaded really say something so infective that even you were infected to the point of no longer caring for liberty or the constitutions?

    Criminalizing possession of drug paraphernalia and alcohol is clearly adverse to Pa.Const. Article I, Section 1: "All men . . . have certain inherent and indefeasible rights, among which are . . . acquiring [and] possessing . . . property . . ." and so those arrests and convictions must certainly be void, any judge presiding lacking jurisdiction...

    The federal government can't choose not to issue an LTCF because of discharge conditions. Reserving the right to keep and bear arms to the people obviously means, and if it even means the people have the power to delegate their right to the state through a constitution, that the state has to specifically provide that the right be deprived by due process, first through the constitution and then through statutory law. Since Pa. Const. Article I, Secs. 1 and 21 specifically provide that they may not, and Sec. 25 repeats that the legislature may have nothing to do with it, the LTCF system should not exist. Even if it was allowed to exist, the only reason specified by statute that could possibly relate to the US military is (e)(1)(xi): "An individual who has been discharged from the armed forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions." which simply does not apply here and therefore OP's friend would be entitled to a license, actually having no criminal history of which we've been apprised.

    I'm a bit freaked out, son of the revolution. Will I be the next person to suspend my belief in liberty when something sensational is waved in front of my eyes?

  6. #26
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    Default Re: My concealed carry permit applictaion was denied???

    I missed the part where the guy has not paid his debt to society. Or where he robbed a liquor store at gunpoint.

    A little youthful jackassery and you guys are speculating about the details and commiserating in judgment over his life's story. None of which seems to involve robbery, violence, or hurting anybody. He's never been to jail, not on probation, not on parole. And he didn't come here crying how he was falsely accused by an ex-girlfriend for pushing her. Or pointing a shotgun at his second step-cousin trying to drive his truck away, etc., etc.

    There are plenty of people on this very forum with LTCF who could be far more deserving of a witch hunt. Give me a F'ing break.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: My concealed carry permit applictaion was denied???

    Quote Originally Posted by ungawa View Post
    I missed the part where the guy has not paid his debt to society. Or where he robbed a liquor store at gunpoint.

    A little youthful jackassery and you guys are speculating about the details and commiserating in judgment over his life's story. None of which seems to involve robbery, violence, or hurting anybody. He's never been to jail, not on probation, not on parole. And he didn't come here crying how he was falsely accused by an ex-girlfriend for pushing her. Or pointing a shotgun at his second step-cousin trying to drive his truck away, etc., etc.

    There are plenty of people on this very forum with LTCF who could be far more deserving of a witch hunt. Give me a F'ing break.

    wonderful!!!!!

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  8. #28
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    Default Re: My concealed carry permit applictaion was denied???

    You Anarchists can have this thread, bye......

  9. #29
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    Default Re: My concealed carry permit applictaion was denied???

    Pardon our freedom.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: My concealed carry permit applictaion was denied???

    Quote Originally Posted by MDJschool View Post
    Did customloaded really say something so infective that even you were infected to the point of no longer caring for liberty or the constitutions?

    Criminalizing possession of drug paraphernalia and alcohol is clearly adverse to Pa.Const. Article I, Section 1: "All men . . . have certain inherent and indefeasible rights, among which are . . . acquiring [and] possessing . . . property . . ." and so those arrests and convictions must certainly be void, any judge presiding lacking jurisdiction...

    The federal government can't choose not to issue an LTCF because of discharge conditions. Reserving the right to keep and bear arms to the people obviously means, and if it even means the people have the power to delegate their right to the state through a constitution, that the state has to specifically provide that the right be deprived by due process, first through the constitution and then through statutory law. Since Pa. Const. Article I, Secs. 1 and 21 specifically provide that they may not, and Sec. 25 repeats that the legislature may have nothing to do with it, the LTCF system should not exist. Even if it was allowed to exist, the only reason specified by statute that could possibly relate to the US military is (e)(1)(xi): "An individual who has been discharged from the armed forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions." which simply does not apply here and therefore OP's friend would be entitled to a license, actually having no criminal history of which we've been apprised.

    I'm a bit freaked out, son of the revolution. Will I be the next person to suspend my belief in liberty when something sensational is waved in front of my eyes?


    Easy big guy, Im fairly well known as one of the most "strict constructionist " , libertarian minds around. I've said more then once the Drug Laws are an abomination and a huge waste of money. But for right now, the reality of the situation is that they are there and have to be understood as possibly having an adverse impact on one's future, as appears to be one possible factor for the OP. I also fully support the idea that the 2A is the only " carry permit " one needs. I even agree that once someone has served their sentence, then their rights should be restored in full, including 2A rights, to do otherwise is just a continuation of punishment for a sentence " already served". And if their to " dangerous " to ever have access to a firearm again, then they shouldnt be released.

    But all of that is now and for the foreseeable future just wishful thinking instead of dealing with reality. It doesnt make it right by a long stretch,but theres a whole helluva long time and alot of things that have to happen to turn things back to the truest interpretation of what the Founders intended for us.

    So................ what the means in practical terms is that the OP is unfortunately going to suffer consequences for his actions, at least in the current climate. I can dream about how great things could be, but I prefer to deal with the reality of how to work within the way things are, at least until such time as they change.

    The OP clearly knew that possession of alcohol by a minor was an " offense " and that there was some level of risk of punishment, and choose to do it anyway. The OP also certainly knew that pot is currently illegal , but choose too partake/possess paraphenalia anyway ( and before someone says it, I've made it clear more then once I fully support legalization of pot ). He voluntarily choose with his own free will to " play the game " and he got caught. He might not have realized, in fact I'll go so far to say that he probably had no clue as a teenager, that the potential penalties would effect him in some completely unrelated way far in the future, but thats the way it is.

    How is it any different then people proclaiming they "dont care about some private property owners signs, Im gonna carry anyway , what they cant see they wont know about " ?

    Their KNOWINGLY violating the "rules" so to speak, with full knowledge that there may be adverse consequences for them if discovered. I highly doubt alot of people would be offering condolences and praise if someone posted they knowingly broke the rules, got caught and punished and the consequences were more severe then they knew or thought were fair.

    And for the record, I personally AGREE with carrying discreetly when and where necessary, but I''ve also accepted the fact and responsibility for that choice if it blows up in my face.
    Last edited by son of the revolution; February 25th, 2010 at 11:06 PM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud

    Proud to be an Enemy of The State

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