ammo manufacturers violating antitrust laws?

[BlueGunGuy]

Does anyone have any statistics on whether the ammo companies have increased their manufacturing capacities, and whether they are operating at full capacity? I recognize that in the past they may not have enjoyed the low prices that we enjoyed, but this "shortage" is lasting way too long. Perhaps it really is being driven by the wingnuts who think "osama is comin fer are guns!" but i am starting to doubt that. There are plenty of guns available, everywhere i go, but ammo ... not so much.

maybe i'll get off my butt and go check out the government trade/manufacturing statistics on ammo one of these days. just curious if anyone else already has the answers.

[West Chester]

In a free market any company can produce at what ever level they are able and willing to produce at. There are no limits on minimums or maximums for ammo production. Ammo manufacturers may be filling government contracts first and then any capacity left over for civilian consumption or they may be keeping output artificially low to create a "buzz".

[BlueGunGuy]

In a free market any company can produce at what ever level they are able and willing to produce at. There are no limits on minimums or maximums for ammo production. Ammo manufacturers may be filling government contracts first and then any capacity left over for civilian consumption or they may be keeping output artificially low to create a "buzz".

yeah, thanks, i get the concept of capitalism. however, a competitive free market will also naturally lead to an increase in production to meet sustained demand... that's why i ask about "anti-trust" laws, which are designed to stop companies from colluding with one another to make a market non-competitive i.e. agree that they will all not increase production, and they will then all benefit from higher prices, etc. get it? thanks. now, going back to the original post... anyone have a response?

[Philbert]

Does anyone have any statistics on whether the ammo companies have increased their manufacturing capacities, and whether they are operating at full capacity? I recognize that in the past they may not have enjoyed the low prices that we enjoyed, but this "shortage" is lasting way too long. Perhaps it really is being driven by the wingnuts who think "osama is comin fer are guns!" but i am starting to doubt that. There are plenty of guns available, everywhere i go, but ammo ... not so much.

maybe i'll get off my butt and go check out the government trade/manufacturing statistics on ammo one of these days. just curious if anyone else already has the answers.

Ammo is available more now, but the prices are slow to come down. It's kind of like with gas, I don't know if you can just blame the manufacturers. I don't know if the ammo manufacturers increased capacity, but frankly I don't blame them because the ammo panic was obviously a temporary thing. I wouldn't want to build a new factory to pander to the TEOTWAWKI crowd who will probably have had their fill by the time the new factories come online.

[West Chester]

You are asking for confidential business information... What gain does a company like Winchester have in releasing to its competitors what capacity it is operating at?

There are 2 wars going on that the United States is involved in, people are stockpiling ammo, Dept of HS is placing massive orders, police depts are placing huge orders, Nations around the world are ordering ammo. There is a lot of reasons why supply is low.

http://www.officer.com/web/online/Op...--Pt-1/3$50622

I am a training Sgt. for a large Dept in the DFW area. We are struggling to get ammunition. An order that we placed in June of 2009 has started to slowly trickle in. We have been informed by the distributor that the remainder of our order (.40 S&W and .45 ACP) will not be delivered until July of 2010. That's a delivery date of over a year! We just put out a bib for 200K rounds of .223 and I shudder to think about how long that is going to take. We literally cannot train due to a lack of ammunition. The situation is now beyond ridiculous.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110202712.html

[Steve_NEPhila]

Let me put some color on the "anti trust laws." The Sherman Anti Trust Act and The Clayton Act are the two most used anti trust laws applied. Both of these acts basically say that companies may not act in concert to divide up sales territories, in concert set pricing, bar or impede competitors from entering the market place or to work to establish or preserve monopolistic structures.

From my perspective there is nothing resembling violations of either the Sherman or Clayton Acts today (or in the last two years) by the ammo makers. In fact, the NSSF reported that ammo imports were up approximately 30% in 2009 to fill the demand gap in America. This point directly against a violation in anti trust regulations.

On a more practical side, what kind of ammo are you looking for? I could PM you some websites with great ammo prices by the case. Heck, I bought a case (1000 rds.) of .38 on gunbroker three weeks back for 230 delivered!!!

[762xIan]

I wouldn't want to build a new factory to pander to the TEOTWAWKI crowd who will probably have had their fill by the time the new factories come online.

Even using existing space let alone a "new factory", money is tight and hard to borrow. If the ammo companies have the capacity and machines, they are running.

It is a big expense to buy, install and commission a new production machine. If the company sees the current market as "temporary" they aren't going to borrow the money to expand.

Add in the high cost of commodities (copper, lead, etc.) I don't think we are going to see "cheap" ammunition for a long while.

[Rundownfid]

As pointed out above there is no conspiracy or collusion in the ammo shortage. Supply and demand are the culprits.

However, if the Gov't were really smart and wanted to restrict trade in ammo the Anti-trust laws would be a prime opportunity. Let us hope that the Antis in the Obama administration aren't smart enough to start a flap over anti-trust in the firearms industry. Wouldn't it be ironic if the ammunition companies were wasting their money fighting phony anti-trust charges, instead of using the money to upgrade production.

[Warpt762x39]

I think part of the problem comes from primers. Yes those little thingamajigs that start the whole combustion process.

For brass, you can always run the machines longer. For bullets, the same thing. Powder? Make bigger runs of it.

Primers? Very hard to increase production of primers as they are still filled by hand. A rep from one of the big manufacturers (Winchester, Remington, Federal) said that there is no machine currently in existence that can fill primers properly.

There was an article in American Handgunner about touring the Speer/Sierra factory. There is a photo of the packaging room. In the background there are several hundred 50 gallon drums full of various bullets yet to be boxed up.

You keep one small yet significant part of the process slow, everything slows down.

[phill]

Olin at E. Alton Ill is supposedly running 24/7. One big problem is that primer manufacturing has not progressed much in over 100 yrs. They still due much of the process by hand and way too often have a catastrophic failure.
IMHO lets just keep the evil empire out of ammo manufacturing as much as possible.