Lost and Stolen Ordinance-Time to add Swarthmore

[-JD-]

I would love to see how the DA/ADA will prove beyond a resonable doubt when someone discovers there guns were stolen.

I do not keep my EDC gun with my collections. I also keep my work issued weapons either at work or in my work provided vehicle. (which has a safe in the back that stores weapons and ammo along with some tactical gear)

I have a hunting collection (30.06 and a few shotguns) in a safe which I maybe go into 6 times a year.

I also have a small safe that has some pistols that are circa 1900-1919 which I enter 3-4 times a year.

If someone was to steal a handgun from that safe or a shotgun from the other it could be 2-3 months before I notice it missing. (I know I should play with my toys more but have not had the chance the past couple of years)\

Sorry if I'm off-base, but you sound like an LEO. If so, would you come out to the Radnor and/or Swarthmore meetings and state your experienced opinions.

The next Radnor meeting is Monday 2/22. (http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-...s-could-c.html) If one town votes it down, it could start to change the momentum, especially at a major home of CFPA (Radnor). i.e. Killing it in Radnor, could very well make it harder to go in Swathmore

ETA: It looks like the the Radnor hearing MAY be being postponed: From the Radnor thread:

Just received from Commissioner President Nagle:

"Bob, just to let you know, due to a clerical error the Lost and Stolen ordinance has been legally advertised as being on the upcoming agenda for Feb 22. This was wrong. As a result the agenda will list the ordinance BUT it will immediately be tabled. I do not want a bunch of folks coming to the meeting who would normally not attend. I give you my personal word that this will not be voted on at the upcoming meeting.
John"

Looks like he wants the dogs called off for awhile, what do you guys think? I wrote back asking 1.) will CeaseFirePA be there speaking and 2.) are they tabling this becasue the Solicitor hasnt issued his opinion yet or to wait on Hatboro. I will let you know what he says.

[thundrr1]

The whole thing is a waste of time and paper. Read the first part of the proposed ordinance.

"Section 1: Reporting Requirement. Any person who is the owner of a firearm that is lost or stolen shall report the loss or theft to the Swarthmore Borough Police Department within 72 hours after discovery of the loss or theft." Bold is by me.

I read that to say that you may not even know the firearm is gone for six months, but once you find out, you have to report the incident. Someone may be killed with you weapon three months prior and you wouldn't even know it's gone (as you are all aware). You would then have to prove that you had no clue it was missing. Good luck doing that.

This will only serve to hurt the victim of the theft, the honest firearm owner.

I need to get in touch with Mr. Jefferson. I found this link to all of them.

http://www.swarthmorepa.org/government/council.asp

[thundrr1]

This is what I sent to every member of Council.....

Dear Council Member,

While not being a resident of the Borough, but a Delco resident, I believe that the Borough Council will be voting on an ordinance that has no useful purpose. Your proposed “Lost or Stolen” ordinance will do nothing to stop criminals from stealing and using a weapon, it will only make a criminal out of a law abiding citizen of Swarthmore.

Let’s say 60 year old Charles Q. Average is a resident of the Borough. Mr. Average has a revolver that he keeps tucked away in a drawer in the nightstand next to his bed (this is not an uncommon situation, you must admit). Mr. Average knows it’s there and rarely checks on the weapon. Well, one day while Charles is as work, a criminal sneaks into his home and steals only the weapon, after finding nothing of any value in the rest of the house. (Criminals are know to check out nightstands for such a prize). Three months go by. Mr. Average has had no reason to check the nightstand.

Or, his cleaning lady decides to grab the weapon for her boyfriend and again, Mr. Average has no reason to check the nightstand.

On a cold February evening a police officer knocks on Mr. Average’s door. He informs Mr. Average he is under arrest because his revolver has been recovered and was used in a murder two weeks ago. Charles is now a criminal. He just found out that he is also a victim of a crime.

I find it absurd that Borough would place their citizens in this position. Charles Q. Average is an upstanding citizen. He helps with the fireworks every Fourth of July. He votes in every election. He never tries to get out of Jury Duty, in fact he serves proudly.
He is a Veteran. NOW he is a criminal. All because some TRUE criminal stole his home defense weapon that he hasn’t even seen or touched in two years.

Within minutes of Charlie finding out his weapon is missing, he’ll call the police on his own. He doesn’t need an ordinance to tell him to do that!

Before you vote on this ordinance, think about the repercussions it may have on your honest citizens that just want to be able defend themselves.

Thank you,


It should be interesting to see if I get any answers from anyone.

[Dannytheman]

The meeting will be March 1st to discuss... Monday night. Clear your calendars Delco members.

I will be there!!

[andrewjs18]

I wish someone would hold a meeting on Wednesday or Thursday night which are my days off! I cannot attend as this is too close to give notice for a day off.

[thundrr1]

Well,,,, I did get a reply....

Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Guns

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

Thank you for your input on our proposed ordinance. I must though, make a very important clarification. The ordinance requires notification 72 hours AFTER DISCOVERY, so if Mr. Average was in the situation you describe, he would have no culpability - it's more to prevent straw purchases or other instances where someone knows their weapon goes missing but does not notify authorities.

My reply to her was,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Dear Ms. Smythe,

Thank you for the prompt reply. How would Mr. Average set about proving he had no knowledge of the weapon being removed from his home within the prescribed time limit? How much would Mr. Average have to spend on a lawyer or would his word be good enough? Do you think the straw purchaser isn't going to lie about this? It would be very difficult to defend ones self against this charge if one had no knowledge of the theft to begin with.

As far as I am aware there are no FFL dealers in Swarthmore. This is where the majority of straw purchases occur. ALL transfers of hand weapons must got through an FFL (Federal Firearms Licensed) dealer. Should someone privately sell a hand gun to another person without using an FFL, they are in violation of Federal and State laws and have more to worry about than the Borough ordinance. These people are not concerned with Borough ordinances, State laws or Federal laws. They are looking for the money.

The proposed ordinance will only make a criminal out of your honest citizens, after already being the victim of a theft.

Again, thanks for taking the time to read my side.

George

Her last reply….

“Thanks for your comments - I see your point and I think it's a very complicated issue. I think Municipalities - not so much Swarthmore, but others with a significant problem are looking for ways to try and fight gun crime and in Pennsylvania the laws are against them. So - I think we will continue to struggle with this, and I appreciate your input.”

[andrewjs18]

I shot off an email to everyone listed from the nra-ila.org page.

[brassguy]

I grew up in Swathmore and this is just the usual leftest crap from the Swathmorons as the locals call them. I love that its a "pro cop" bill. Let me tell you the Swathmore police are the most bored to death cops you will ever see. The last time I lived there several years ago there had not been a shot fired by the police in over 20 years.
I once got pulled over as a kid with target arrows in my back seat and from their reaction you would have thought they cornered Bin Laden.

I think I'm the only conservative that ever lived in that town.

[andrewjs18]

I grew up in Swathmore and this is just the usual leftest crap from the Swathmorons as the locals call them. I love that its a "pro cop" bill. Let me tell you the Swathmore police are the most bored to death cops you will ever see. The last time I lived there several years ago there had not been a shot fired by the police in over 20 years.
I once got pulled over as a kid with target arrows in my back seat and from their reaction you would have thought they cornered Bin Laden.

I think I'm the only conservative that ever lived in that town.

I didn't even know Swarthmore had their own police, to be honest...LOL

[Dannytheman]

I didn't even know Swarthmore had their own police, to be honest...LOL

I think they ride Segways in and around town!


We need to start a list of people showing up!

Next Monday....

Who else is going to join me?