Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Open Carry & What can go wrong..

    What can go wrong when you are out and about open carrying?

    Can a cop, ignorant of the law, arrest you? Confiscate your gun??

    I know all charges would be dropped, and gun eventually returned, but Im sure you'd have to jump through some hoops and probably balance a treat on top of your nose.

    So I've been thinking of OCing around my area, what could possibly go wrong? And how to keep it from escalating into a hassle??

    (Im not asking about having to defend oneself, Im asking about the law and those ignorant of it.)

    And does my area Main Line/Haverford, thats not considered Philadelphia, or a city of the first class, correct?
    Also, I do not have an LTCF.
    Last edited by LorDiego01; August 29th, 2007 at 10:21 PM.
    ==============
    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”
    ~Samuel Adams

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
    ~Thomas Jefferson, 1791

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Open Carry & What can go wrong..

    Quote Originally Posted by LorDiego01 View Post
    What can go wrong when you are out and about open carrying?

    Can a cop, ignorant of the law, arrest you? Confiscate your gun?? ...snip

    This is really more than just a simple question

    Of course an ignorant cop can arrest you, and it has happened.

    As to what to do, what preparations to take and how to handle yourself there is much discussion and debate.

    The best advice I can give you is to read and read some more.
    1) the law. Particularly the PA UFA
    http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...18/00.061..HTM

    2) Others experiences. While state laws vary, the situations and handling of such will be siilar. The BEST place to become familiar with is www.opencarry.org Click on the discussion forums and read others experiences.

    Be informed, be polite, and do not consent to compromise your rights. And be prepared to follow-up.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Open Carry & What can go wrong..

    From my point of view, your most likely to be asked to leave a store(IMO), the easiest way to deescalate that IMO would be yes sir/ma'am and take a B line for the exit.. Don't protest there in any way, don't try to tell them how its legal, and start pissing yourself jumping around in a circle yelling out the 2nd amendment word for word, write a letter later or call corporate, if its the stores policy its their policy... Then theres always the person who thinks your going to rob a bank if they see a gun, or blow up a building so they will call 911 most likely and tell them your waving it around shouting jihad then here come the po-po......

    As for have a run in w/ a LEO, IMO it could go from a head nod, to being tossed on the ground and cuffed(but thats for a casual walking into a 7-11 type confrontation, not someone calling man with a gun).. I dont really know that you'd get tossed on the ground so much as they dont know exactly who you are, so many diff law agencies anymore, and I doubt a local PD officer wants to have to explain why he slammed a DEA agent on the hood of his car, as long as you follow orders theres at least somewhat of a chance you won't get roughed up.. me personally when I see an OC I dont think of a bad man, I think of a law abiding citizen or a LEO because its in plain view for the world to see, a criminal isn't gonna do that, they are gonna conceal as best they can, but obviously I have a strong connection to one side of this issue... It's gonna depend on the cop in all reality, will you get convicted of anything? No, but it's not gonna be a fun process in anyway for you.


    alright that was alot, but i figured i'd give my FULL views of what I think could happen while OCing..

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Open Carry & What can go wrong..

    I too am considering starting to OC. I don't have the time or money to go to a court hearing to prove a LEO that it is my right to OC. I don't like having a gun pointed at me a whole lot either, like when granny calls 911 saying this big, bald headed tatood guy with a gun just went into the store. I, (boy I hate to say it) just think its easier to conceal to avoid any possible confrontations that might happen.. Get mr. po-po acadamy pointing his gun at me yelling , getting all worked up and his finger twitches, Or Joe "I just got a permit to carry cause I'm cool" thinking He's some superhero goin to save the day by ending mine... I just don't trust others I guess.

    Zombie Response Team SECTOR 4 Ground assault unit
    "Nothing defuses people like crazy." ~ Lycanthrope

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Open Carry & What can go wrong..

    Its possible to get arrested, but if you educate yourself with knowledge of the carry laws and caselaws, it'll be a rare event that they follow through with cuffing you after you explain the law and have them confirm things with superiors.

    The Ortiz v. Commonwealth and Commonwealth v. Hawkins cases stated that even for someone carrying concealed that the LEO's confrontation is unwarranted until you cant prove you have a license. A "man with a gun" call is not justification for arrest for stopping you for questioning seeing how open carry is legal. There must be "reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct" (Commonwealth v. Melendez). If you aren't waving it around like an idiot or participating in another crime, then they have no probable cause to detain you.

    If by chance they do arrest you, you just won the lottery. A quick talk with the District Attorney and your lawyer will have you out and packing again right quicklike. Any half-decent lawyer will jump on a "give me" lawsuit with a minor retainer(collecting his/her part of the booty after the gavel fall)
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Open Carry & What can go wrong..

    worst thing is you get arrested and let go, then paid very well for your time.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Open Carry & What can go wrong..

    say...

    I'm surrounded by colleges. I could fart out the window, and at least three or four colleges would catch a whiff of it.

    Is there some silly "X feet" rule regarding schools and Open Carrying??
    ==============
    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”
    ~Samuel Adams

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
    ~Thomas Jefferson, 1791

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Open Carry & What can go wrong..

    If you have your resident LTCF, then the Federal 1000ft safe school zone law doesn't effect you if you open or concealed carry. State law only applies to grounds and buildings, however there is the "other lawful purposes" clause.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Open Carry & What can go wrong..

    That's only public schools. Coleges are private schools, no different than wal-mart, except the chicks are hotter.
    Adams County Sport Handgunners Association - President

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Open Carry & What can go wrong..

    Quote Originally Posted by djturnz View Post
    That's only public schools. Coleges are private schools, no different than wal-mart, except the chicks are hotter.
    Quite possibly true about private schools. Definitely true about colleges. PA's law covers both public and private primary and secondary schools.


    Federal law

    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 922 > (q)
    (1) The Congress finds and declares that—
    (A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;
    (B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
    (C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [2] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;
    (D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
    (E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;
    (F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
    (G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;
    (H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and
    (I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.
    (2)
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
    (3)
    (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
    (iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or
    (iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.
    (4)
    Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

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