Is "Self Defense" & "Protection" the same purpose on a LTCF ?

[LedZep]

Good Afternoon All,

I applied for my LTCF a little over a month ago , I received my postcard in the mail the other day and decided to pick up the actual card today.

I remember when I filed my application that I checked the box that said -
"Self- Defense" ..

The choices were the following:

a) Self Defense
b) Employment
C) Hunting and Fishing
d) Target Shooting
e) Gun Collecting
d) Other ___________

In closely looking at the license again now, It actually says the purpose is
" Protection "

Do these mean one in the same as far as the license is concerned ?
( I am new to Firearms as a civilian, My last pistol activity was several years ago in the military. Sorry for asking the newb questions.. But I would sincerely appreciative if you could shed any light on the subject. TYVM )

I do have another newb question if I may..

I am an avid Trout fisherman come the Spring and Summer months. I often will get my long waders on at he crack of dawn, pack a sandwich , a bottle or 2 of iced tea and then "Billy goat" into the areas of the stream that are a little more difficult to get to, This generally results in me fishing alone and in holes that are un-fished early in the season, especially if the water is pretty high and having a nice selection of native trout to pick from my catch. I generally park my truck in a location that other anglers park theres, I just takes a few more minutes to get my hook wet because I don't drop it close to the entrance of the stream .. I usually wait until I am 1/2 mile or more up or down stream to load my bait / lure and start casting.

My buddy and I were discussing a story last year where a fisherman was held at gunpoint in the stream, asked for his keys and valuables , told to take off his waders and boots and sit in the water until the BG was out of sight.
I dont know if it is true, But the picture is sort of ugly when you think about it.
Without boots and waders or anything to defend yourself you would be pretty much stuck where you are , if not dead.. Even hasty travel back to any safe area would be nearly impossible in barefeet. There is nothing around sometimes in these areas of the water.

Does my license permit me to carry in this situation while trout fishing?
Why else would you carry a firearm while in fishing waders , Other then self -defense?

Does one need or can one obtain a second license that states its purpose as "hunting and fishing" for the right to carry a firearm for self -defense while fishing ?

Once again, I do not know if the story we discussed is true, However I ( Like most of you, I can imagine) would not want to find myself in that situation.

Thanks in advance for any clarity you may offer..
I am heading to the range this weekend with my brother for some more formal firearms re-education, as well as attempting to solidify what will be my first pistol to purchase.
But there is no rush fore me personally.. I believe I need to regain the confidence I had several years ago.. I am hoping it is somewhat akin to riding a bicycle..
But if not.. I will wait until it comes...

Personal safety and the safety of my family is paramount and foremost over the urge to impulse buy. There will be time for that in the future.




Vin

( Oh, one more.. "BG" & "Zombie" .. Do These forum terms mean the same thing?, I have done quite a bit of reading here and it seems the 2 used to generally describe some undesirable criminal thug types ? or anyone warranting a single head shot to get rid of.. LOL? ) The last zombies I took a shot at were on my sons video games...)

[HiredGoon]

The PA LTCF is good for all legal purposes regardless of what it says in that box on the license. Some sheriffs use protection instead of self-defense, but it really does not matter.

One problem that might come up though is if you are in a reciprocal state and your LTCF reads something other than self-defense or protection... a cop might detain you until it gets straightened out.

[levib]

Does my license permit me to carry in this situation while trout fishing?
Why else would you carry a firearm while in fishing waders , Other then self -defense?

Does one need or can one obtain a second license that states its purpose as "hunting and fishing" for the right to carry a firearm for self -defense while fishing ?

As HiredGoon said, what it says in the box does not matter. I checked a few things on my application and mine says Protection in the box. Self Defense or Protection is probably the best bet for the reason HiredGoon mentioned.

The only reasons I can think of to carry a gun while in a secluded area is self protection and hunting. I have run into a bear or two while in the woods near my house, and it is reassuring to have a large caliber handgun just in case. You can also hunt deer in PA with a revolver--not sure what else you can hunt with a revolver.

[West Chester]

Here is how I carry when fishing

[Steve in PA]

I have no idea why they have boxes to check. The PA LTCF allows you to carry concealed for all those reasons.

[levib]

I have no idea why they have boxes to check. The PA LTCF allows you to carry concealed for all those reasons.

Yeah, I don't understand it at all. Probably to make you think you can only use it for a specific purpose.

[suzukirider]

mine was marked protection also, and I checked almost all the boxes.........yes you can carry fishing oc or cc,unless in a state park it must be cc only.

[sublime1]

( Oh, one more.. "BG" & "Zombie" .. Do These forum terms mean the same thing?, I have done quite a bit of reading here and it seems the 2 used to generally describe some undesirable criminal thug types ? or anyone warranting a single head shot to get rid of.. LOL? ) The last zombies I took a shot at were on my sons video games...)

BG= bad guy
zombie= a person who died and came back to life to eat the flesh of the living; the undead- can only be killed by destroying the brain with a head shot or blunt force trauma to the head- better to double tap, just to be sure

[JCWohlschlag]

mine was marked protection also, and I checked almost all the boxes.........yes you can carry fishing oc or cc,unless in a state park it must be cc only.

Emphasis added - uh really? I don't recall any law on that one.

Quoting myself so I don’t have to retype…

The way state park carry works is the following…

Under the authority granted to them by 71 P.S. § 1340.313, part of the Conservation and Natural Resources Act mentioned in 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 (m.2), the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR) enacted 17 Pa. Code § 11.215 which prohibits all uncased firearms, and sets other firearm restrictions as well.

17 Pa. Code § 11.215. Weapons and hunting.

The following activities are prohibited without written permission of the Department:

(1) Hunting, pursuing or intentionally disturbing woodchucks, also known as groundhogs. Paragraph (2) does not apply to this activity.

(2) Hunting, pursuing or intentionally disturbing wildlife unless:

(i) The person engaging in the activity is licensed by the Game Commission to hunt and is engaged in hunting in accordance with the Game and Wildlife Code.

(ii) The activity takes place in an area designated by the Department for hunting. At Presque Isle State Park, waterfowl hunting may take place only from a facility designated by the Department as a waterfowl blind, and shooting shall be directed away from State park land and over the adjacent waters.

(iii) The activity takes place during hunting season as established by the Game Commission.

(iv) The firearm, archery equipment or other device used for this activity is lawful for hunting under the Game and Wildlife Code. A device operated by air, chemical or gas cylinder by which a projectile can be discharged or propelled is not lawful for hunting under the Game and Wildlife Code.

(3) Using a device, including a firearm, archery equipment or slingshot, that is capable of discharging or propelling a projectile, except as provided in paragraph (2) or (7).

(4) Possessing an uncased device, or uncasing a device, including a firearm, archery equipment or slingshot, that is capable of discharging or propelling a projectile, except as provided in paragraph (2) or (7), or except in the owner’s building on a leased campsite, in the owner’s residence, or in the owner’s vehicle or trailer.

(5) Failing to keep a device, including a firearm, archery equipment or slingshot, that is capable of discharging or propelling a projectile, in the owner’s building on a leased campsite, in the owner’s residence or in the owner’s vehicle or trailer. This prohibition does not apply to either of the following:

(i) A person licensed by the Game Commission to hunt, and in possession of a device that is lawful for hunting under the Game and Wildlife Code, during hunting season as established by the Game Commission, in a State park open for hunting.

(ii) A person engaged in target-shooting under paragraph (7).

(6) The trapping of wildlife. This prohibition does not apply to a person licensed by the Game Commission to engage in trapping, during trapping season as established by the Game Commission, in an area designated by the Department for hunting.

(7) Target-shooting with a device, including a firearm, archery equipment or slingshot, capable of discharging or propelling a projectile, except in an area designated by the Department for this purpose and in accordance with posted requirements and restrictions.

(8) Dog training, except from the day following Labor Day through March 31, in an area designated by the Department for hunting.

Solely under this regulation, possession of firearms was basically restricted to hunting, target shooting, and your own campsite, vehicle, or trailer. The carry of a firearm, either openly or concealed, for general protection was not allowed.

HB1845 then amended 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 as quoted above (and went into effect on December 16, 2008) to explicitly allow concealed carry for licensees (but, as you noted, it does not mention open carry).

When you combine one regulation that prohibits the general carry of all firearms, open or concealed, and an overriding statute that explicitly allows the general carry of concealed firearms, you end up with the ability to only carry a firearm concealed and not openly. This is what the earlier quoted DCNR email from post #359 meant when it said, “All of the enforcement provisions of Section 11.215 are still valid for anything other than a concealed firearm…”

[ungawa]

The PA LTCF is good for all legal purposes regardless of what it says in that box on the license. Some sheriffs use protection instead of self-defense, but it really does not matter.

One problem that might come up though is if you are in a reciprocal state and your LTCF reads something other than self-defense or protection... a cop might detain you until it gets straightened out.

There are nearby states (I forget which) that discriminate between license types and possibly won't even let you carry in a vehicle (Ohio? I forget) unless your license is approved for purposes of self defense. I think "protection" would be OK, but "collecting" or "sport" etc. might cause you problems out of state in some places. Inside PA, does not matter unless it is a sportsman's permit vs. a LTCF issued for whatever purpose. Purpose for LTCF makes no difference in PA. Unless you meet a cop that does not know the law.