Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default FYI - Ammo reloaders who fly

    TSA to swab airline passengers' hands in search for explosives

    By Jeanne Meserve and Mike M. Ahlers, CNN




    STORY HIGHLIGHTS
    • After Christmas Day attack, agency to begin random swabbings
    • Previously, screeners swabbed some carry-on luggage and other objects
    • Security experts call hand swabbing a good move
    • Privacy advocates back tests, provided TSA tests only for security, doesn't discriminate

    Washington (CNN) -- To the list of instructions you hear at airport checkpoints, add this: "Put your palms forward, please."


    The Transportation Security Administration soon will begin randomly swabbing passengers' hands at checkpoints and airport gates to test them for traces of explosives.

    Previously, screeners swabbed some carry-on luggage and other objects as they searched for the needle in the security haystack -- components of terrorist bombs in an endless stream of luggage.

    But after the Christmas Day attempted bombing of Northwest Flight 253 over Detroit, Michigan, the TSA began a program of swabbing passengers' hands, which could be contaminated by explosive materials, experts say. The TSA will greatly expand the swabbing in the coming weeks, the agency said.

    "The point is to make sure that the air environment is a safe environment," Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano told CNN. "We know that al Qaeda [and other] terrorists continue to think of aviation as a way to attack the United States. One way we keep it safe is by new technology [and] random use of different types of technology."

    Security experts consulted by CNN said swabbing hands is a good move, and privacy advocates said they support the new swabbing protocols, provided the agency tests only for security-related objects and does not discriminate when it selects people to be tested.

    It's a "very good idea," said security expert Tony Fainberg. TSA screeners currently swab luggage handles and parts of bags that are likely be contaminated by human hands, he said, and swabbing a person's hands increases the chances of finding explosive materials. "Looking at the hands means you will probably get a better dose," he said.

    Under the new protocols, tests will be conducted at various locations -- including in checkpoint lines, during the screening process and at gates. Newer, more portable machines make it easier to conduct tests away from fixed locations such as the checkpoint.

    The TSA has more than 7,000 explosive trace detection (ETD) machines and has purchased 400 additional units with $16 million in federal stimulus money. The president's fiscal 2011 budget calls for $60 million to purchase approximately 800 portable ETD machines.

    Napolitano said the tests will not significantly increase wait times at airport checkpoints.

    The American Civil Liberties Union has "always supported explosive detection as a good form of security that doesn't really invade privacy," said Jay Stanley, an attorney and privacy expert with the organization.
    Stanley said the ACLU is chiefly concerned that the TSA does not discriminate when selecting people for enhanced screening -- something the agency said it does not do -- and that it treat people with dignity.
    "We would not want to see it implemented in a discriminatory fashion, for example, in a disproportionate way against Muslims and Arabs or, for example, people with red hair or anything else. Security experts from across the spectrum will tell you that that's not just unfair and unjust and not the American way, it's also a terrible way to do security," Stanley said.

    Swabbing also should not be used to test for non-security-related contraband, such as drugs, he said. "Under the Constitution, searches in airports are only for the purpose of protecting the security of airline transportation; they are not general law enforcement stops. And so it wouldn't be permissible for the government to use these trace portal detectors to look for drugs," Stanley said.

    The TSA said the machines test only for explosives. It declined to specify which explosives, citing security reasons.

    Because some legal substances -- such as fertilizers and heart medicines -- can result in "false positives," Stanley said the ACLU also wants to ensure that people who test positive be treated respectfully.

    "It's important that the government treat people who do show up as a positive fairly and with dignity, and not parade them off in handcuffs and treat them as terrorists -- but do rational things to investigate what the problem might be," he said.

    But swabbing hands does not, by itself, raise civil liberty problems, Stanley said. "There's really not a big privacy interest at stake here," he said. "They are basically looking for particles of explosives, which is not something that people normally have."

  2. #2
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    Default Re: FYI - Ammo reloaders who fly

    This is going to go well... What about the numerous cleaners and solutions that could be used in bombs? Are they going to bust everyone who doesn't have their hands amputated?
    III%

  3. #3
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    Default Re: FYI - Ammo reloaders who fly

    Its a good thing smokeless powders are legally propellants and not explosives.. lol
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: FYI - Ammo reloaders who fly

    wanna bet they won't take "i load my own ammo" or "i shoot muzzleloaders" as an excuse?
    ONE TO THE HEAD!!!!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: FYI - Ammo reloaders who fly

    Quote Originally Posted by MischaBurns View Post
    wanna bet they won't take "i load my own ammo" or "i shoot muzzleloaders" as an excuse?
    Cue lawsuit #1 in 5..... 4...... 3.... 2......
    III%

  6. #6
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    Default Re: FYI - Ammo reloaders who fly

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    Its a good thing smokeless powders are legally propellants and not explosives.. lol
    Don't forget primers and caps.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: FYI - Ammo reloaders who fly

    A few years ago I was coming back into the country after attending my sister's wedding in the Bahamas. My carry on pack was a backpack I have used HARD for about 15 years. When I started getting into guns and had my range dug out in my back yard, I used this pack stuffed with sweatshirts as a rest to sight rifles in.

    They swabbed my bag, and a few of the screeners got VERY interested in my bag. They took everything out of it and looked at every damn thread of that bag which is made of canvas and leather. After no less than 10 minutes of examining my bag, they put everything back in and let me go.

    My wife was freaking out - she knew I used it regularly as a range bag and was actually the one who reminded me about "shooting guns off it." I just thought they were being thorough!
    "The rifle is the weapon of democracy. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military. The hired servants of our rulers. Only the government-and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws." (Edward Abbey, "The Right to Arms," Abbey's Road [New York, 1979])
    I have my rifle. Do you?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: FYI - Ammo reloaders who fly

    I don't think you have to worry about being busted for coming up hot, but you will get "extra" attention (more through screening) if you come up hot. Its kinda like buying a last minute, one way ticket in cash, they will give you extra attention...
    "You never lived till you almost died, for those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"

  9. #9
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    Default Re: FYI - Ammo reloaders who fly

    I worked in a high security field for 8 years. We'd get flagged because of gasoline on our shoes from pumping gas coming in. We had one guy who had been reloading the night before in the pants he wore to work that day. Yeah, he didn't get in for a few hours. They actually went to his house to confirm he was reloading. This was a place where the mention of guns, bombs, sabotage, ect. would get you hauled off to security. We couldn't even wear belt buckles made from shell bottoms. Which by the way are very cool. The TSA stuff is easy going in comparison. First full scan of anything carried in, then explosive detectors, then drug dogs. Then you needed to recite your employee number to pick up your badge. And then the random off to the side search and questions. Vehicles were subject to search. At least 4 drug tests a year (random). No unauthorized reading material. DON'T go over the yellow security line. This was a deadly force zone. DO NOT joke, or even speak to security. Hell, someone wrote some graffiti on a shithouse door. The FBI and/or DOE took the door for investigation.
    When the SHTF......be the fan.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: FYI - Ammo reloaders who fly

    Awww gee's looks like im up shit creek lol, I think theres no possable way to stop bombers and other wack jobs. Too many cracks and loop holes

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