My letter and responses it generated

[jonnyec]

You're absolutely right. I shouldn't let my personal opinion get in the way of the fact that this dude is wrong, plain and simple. Sticking to the facts/laws is sound advice.
I guess I've always been too much of a people pleaser ....

[jonnyec]

Now, my friends, is where it gets interesting.
My new email buddy just sent a fairly sacrcastic reply titled "here ya go genius," accompanied by an attached version of Philly's LTCF application.
One sentence reads: Under no Circumstance should you store your weapon in a vehicle (trunk or otherwise). If your weapon is lost or stolen
because of the weapon being left in a vehicle, this will result in the immediate revocation of your license to carry.
He then went on to say something to the effect of "I hope you don't get a 'permit' since you obviously know nothing about PA guns laws."
Interesting ... since I sent him cited statutes from the UFA. Yeah, I know nothing about gun laws ...
What I know nothing about, admitedly, are the gun laws Philly makes up and places on their "application," which I explained to our friend is not uniform as it should be throuhgout the state.
I told him I do have my "permit," er, LTCF, (this guy likes to pretend he knows everything about PA gun law, but calls it a permit. Go figure -- but told him I got mine in a county outside PHilly, and the application didn't have this vehicle revocation thing. I guess we'll see what he has to say. I'll keep you posted ....

[Adam-12]

Trouble is, now you're basically in a pissing match: the application form violates the UFA, because neither Philadelphia nor the Sheriff have any authority to create rules like this. But since it's on an "official document," good luck convincing your sheep friend. Which, of course, is why these crooks have the brass balls to break the law like that: 9 out of 10 sheep surveyed will believe anything they read.

[4XLT]

just keep sending him statutes !!

until he actually reads them !

[jonnyec]

Despite the outcome of our little "pissing match," this has actually been an interesting educational experience for me. I have yet to run into someone who I'm assuming is not an anti, be so set in his ways, and not entertain the idea that the information they have is wrong, and they're incorrect.
Is it really like this, you know, the act of trying to educate someone on the "cause?"
I guess I'd be surprised to encounter so much resistance from an anti, someone like my mom, for example, who is the way she is and will NEVER come around, but to get this type of resistance from a fellow 2A supporter here in the Keystone State, it just kind of baffles me.
How do you guys deal with this?

[das]

My BP is through the roof at this point. Tell him to go*&^(*& himself. Know it all people like that piss me off to know end. Hes probably strutting around thinking how smart he is when hes a sheep no matter what he says.

[Curmudgeon]

Despite the outcome of our little "pissing match," this has actually been an interesting educational experience for me. I have yet to run into someone who I'm assuming is not an anti, be so set in his ways, and not entertain the idea that the information they have is wrong, and they're incorrect.
Is it really like this, you know, the act of trying to educate someone on the "cause?"
I guess I'd be surprised to encounter so much resistance from an anti, someone like my mom, for example, who is the way she is and will NEVER come around, but to get this type of resistance from a fellow 2A supporter here in the Keystone State, it just kind of baffles me.
How do you guys deal with this?

That's just it. No matter what he claims, he is not a 2A supporter. He is in favor of exactly those rights he holds dear for himself and no more. He could care less about the 2A or any rights anyone else wishes to support.

The "gun world" is rank with their stench.

Think about it... why are these rights deliberately spelled out and protected? Consider free speech... why would we need to protect free speech if everyone agrees about everything that everyone else wants to say? It is for exactly those times when a free man needs to speak out or protest an unpopular view that his right needs to be protected, but so many would claim that very unpopularity would be sufficient cause to silence someone's voice.

We don't have the 2A for when we all agree, we have it for when we can't agree and a baseline needs to be established.

[jonnyec]

das, if your blood pressure was through the roof before, just wait ....
This, and I'm not making this up, is the response I just received from our friend. I don't even know what to say back to this guy .... might be too tired tonight.
Here it is .... Enjoy!


Good God! What does it take for you to admit when you are wrong?

First off, you never mentioned where you obtained you permit. Your making statements without informing the reader. Especially since you are writing in a newspaper that is printed and published in Philadelphia! Again, you need to mention all the facts before copy/paste irrelevant statutes that do not pertain to ANY Philadelphia laws.

In the future, please inform the reader with the necessary information! It kinda adds credibility to what you write! Failing that, you just come off sounding like a know-it-all jackass! If you would've done this in the first place I never would have wasted my time educating you with Philadelphia gun laws. You probably wouldn't have received any e-mails from anybody with a Phila gun permit. Because after all, who really gives a shit about gun laws outside of Philadelphia???? Oh I don't know...maybe the people who do not live in or own a Phila Gun Permit, that's who! If you come to Philly and it is stolen because you left it in your car, you lose your permit! Don't like it? Don't come to Philly! Don't cry to me about how unfair Phila gun laws are. Don't come to Philly! Just on the basis of common sense, what kind of person leaves a handgun in their car?? A dumb-ass, irresponsible person, who shouldn't have a gun in the first place!

Can you please supply me with "facts" as to why you said: "Philly police are interpreting laws the way they want, and even creating their own when they see fit" Because the law seems to me pretty straightforward to me. It's probably because I have a Pennsylvania/Philadelphia License to carry permit.

BTW, I don't suffer know-it-all, ignorant, fact-less fools gladly!

Don't forget: SUPPLY THE READER WITH THE FACTS. FAILING THAT, YOU JUST COME OFF....(you know the rest) !

BUH-BYE

[twoeggsup]

I'm sorry to say you're pandering to a troll.

[jonnyec]

Here's the response I just sent our friend.
I think I'm done at this point. Too tired to continue .....


I would gladly admit when I'm wrong. Unfortunately, this is not such a case.
First off, it's called a Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms. While invidiual municipalities issue the license, they're good across the state. It is not, as you said, a "Philadelphia License to Carry Firearms."
So ... it doesn't matter where I obtained my license in PA, since it's a license recognized statewide.
My problem with Philly PD has to do with the fact that they are making up their own laws for the city, such as the one concerning revocation when guns are stolen out of cars, that aren't technically legally enforceable. That's why I sent you those statutes from the STATE Uniform Firearms Act. You refer to these as laws that have no bearing whatsoever in Philly, when, as I stated numerous times, they are really the only laws that matter, since municipalities are foribben under what is known as state "preemption" from enacting their own gun laws.
So, with all due respect, it is you, my friend, who has it wrong. I'm really not trying to be a smart ass; just trying to educate.
I would just hope that someone such as yourself, who appears to support the Second Amendment, would be familiar with state firearm laws.
You keep referring to things like a "Philadelphia Gun Permit" and "Philadelphia gun laws" as the only thing that matters to someone who lives in the city, when, in fact, state gun laws are the only ones that matter.
So your comment about informing readers where I got my license from, and the laws to which I'm referring, are moot, since it all boils down to STATE, STATE, STATE.
I'm not bashing Philly; I love the city. I'm merely pointing out that our people in charge aren't always familiar with the proper laws either.