PICS "RESEARCH"

[Gun]

Ricochet,

On 12/18/17 I was researched for the first time in 19 years of buying firearms, here is the kicker, I am a Police Officer and have a spot less record obviously, I have hired an attorney who also contacted an NRA Attorney, and to this day it is 5 days with no response from Gun Dealer and State Police, seems odd but it is happening to other Law Enforcement Officers through out the State. Thoughts? Thanks.

Welcome to the forum!

Being this time of year, shopping and all, you might have to wait a little longer for your determination of the research.

You know other officers being delayed on firearm purchases?

What would be the commonality besides being a LEO?

[abner13]

OK Thanks.

I still dont liek the whole PICS process. Seems like a waste of time and tax money. If NICS is good for ALL firearm purchases in other states, it should be here as well.

Actually , YOU get charged an additional $5-10 for the PICS check. Some dealers incorporate it into the gun price , some itemize it. Either way , the dealer must submit the money ($4?)for each background check phoned in. This fee is supposed to be to maintain and upgrade the PICS system. What it is , a cash cow for the PA State Police.

[Xringshooter]

Actually , YOU get charged an additional $5-10 for the PICS check. Some dealers incorporate it into the gun price , some itemize it. Either way , the dealer must submit the money ($4?)for each background check phoned in. This fee is supposed to be to maintain and upgrade the PICS system. What it is , a cash cow for the PA State Police.

The cost to the FFL is $2 per PICS check, an extra $3 is charged if it is a taxable firearm being sold from the FFL's inventory, be it stocked merchandise or consignment guns. Why the extra $3, who knows? Possibly the cost to do paperwork to send to the PA Dept of Revenue for some reason.

And for all who want to know, PICS does use NICS during the BGC, it also checks other PA databases to insure there is nothing else that would prohibit a person. My problem is with the SP4-113 (Application/Record of Sale form) that some LEO's try to use as a "registration" database bu that is a discussion that is on going in other post here on the forum.

[Gunsnwater]

So pics uses nics ( I knew this ) and if you fail nics your going to fail pics. People want to do away with pics and go to nics. Others say no dont get rid of pics you have recourse to pics not nics and pics is local not federal. But if pics uses nicks then how is pics better?

[Delkal]

Under research status, the firearm dealer cannot let the prospective purchaser or transferee take possession of any firearm. It should be noted that every effort is made to complete research on an individual as soon as possible. Immediately upon completion of the research, the operator is required to call the dealer to give the final decision. It may take as long as 15 days for an operator to obtain the information needed to provide a final decision.

A Pennsylvania firearm dealer cannot transfer a firearm to a non-licensee until the receive an approval number from a PICS representative.

I didn't know PA could put you on hold indefinitely and thought we were a more progressive state when it came to gun rights. According to national law if a check takes longer than 3 days the FFL can transfer it. This happened once (unexplained) to my Dad in Georgia.

A Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) will receive the following instructions when a call is transferred from the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) Contracted Call Center to the FBI Criminal Justice Information Services Division’s NICS Section for a transaction resulting in a delay:




If the FFL has not received a final determination from the NICS after three business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm, the FFL must check “no resolution was provided within three business days” on line 21d of the ATF Form 4473.

Revised October 2010

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/a-nics-delay

[abner13]

So pics uses nics ( I knew this ) and if you fail nics your going to fail pics. People want to do away with pics and go to nics. Others say no dont get rid of pics you have recourse to pics not nics and pics is local not federal. But if pics uses nicks then how is pics better?

No pic-ers!

no pic-ers.jpg

[Xringshooter]

If you get a denial with PICS and submit the challenge form, the PSP has a set amount of time to either reverse or uphold the denial. If you get a denial with NICS you then have to challenge it through their system (FBI) and they DO NOT have a time interval requirement to make a decision. Right now it is taking upwards to 2 years to have that decision made (I found this out by talking to FFLs in other states that use NICS). 30 days or 2 years which is better, hmmm? Me, as an FFL, have no problem with the PICS system, I just don't agree with the PSP making people fill out the A/ROS (SP4-113). And to make it clear, the filling out of the SP4-113 IS NOT, IS NOT a part of PICS. Even if PA went to NICS instead of PICS, the PSP can still make you fill out the form for handguns, SBR's and SBS's.

[JenniferG]

The 2nd Amendment is the only right guaranteed by the Constitution that needs government approval in order to exercise it. All other rights are recognized as rights. PA even adds registration of those rights to the mix. Nice going.

[GunLawyer001]

It's not exactly true that PICS "uses NICS". That would mean that any questionable record hit (like a name similar to someone with a PFA) would first be cleared by a NICS operator, then have to clear a PICS operator.

In fact, what happens is that PICS shares a database with NICS, for the raw records only. All judgment calls are made by a PSP employee. If we don't like how that's being done, we have a lot more influence as PA residents and voters on how the PSP conducts itself.

Half a million pissed-off Pennsylvanians have serious clout in Harrisburg (with 12 million Commonwealth residents, half a million is a scary chunk), but we aren't spit in the ocean in a 325 million citizen nation.