Springfield (Delco) Prohibits Carrying?

[NS145]

Found this when trolling on the internet to get the info for Springfield PD to print me.

Ordinance #1466
Article 1 Firearms

48-1 Discharge, carrying, or possession of firearms restricted.
No person shall, except in necessary defense of person or property,
carry, possess, fire, or discharge any gun, firearm, bow and arrow,
BB gun, air gun, spring gun, paintball gun, or any implement which impels
with force a metal pellet or projectile of any kind, within the Township of
Springfield; provided, however, nothing herein shall be interpreted to
prohibit the firing or discharge of said implements at properly
constructed and supervised ranges which have been approved by the
Chief of Police of the Township of Springfield.
Adopted this 11th day of September, 2007 by the
Board of Commissioners of the Township of Springfield.

Am I misreading this?????


http://www.springfielddelco.org/Publ...c%20safety.htm

[Curmudgeon]

"...except in necessary defense or person or property..."

[PisnNapalm]

Looks like they need to be informed about Pennsylvania law.

[jahwarrior72]

Looks like they need to be informed about Pennsylvania law.

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[JCWohlschlag]

Adopted this 11th day of September, 2007 by the
Board of Commissioners of the Township of Springfield.

They also don’t have the excuse of having the ordinance be on the books before § 6120 took effect.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6120

…

CREDIT(S)

1974, Oct. 18, P.L. 768, No. 260, § 2, imd. effective. Amended 1988, Dec. 19, P.L. 1275, No. 158, § 1, effective in 180 days; 1994, Oct. 4, P.L. 571, No. 84, § 1, effective in 60 days; 1999, Dec. 15, P.L. 915, No. 59, § 7, imd. effective.

[Ihatemyglock]

Whos up for an open carry gathering in Springfield?

[bogey1]

email sent..

[BimmerJon]

Whos up for an open carry gathering in Springfield?

in.

My emails to the Police Chief have all gone no where...

Chief Daly,


Good evening. I am contacting you as an inquiry on the Springfield Police force's level of awareness on our state's Firearms laws/updates to MPOETC training. As I am sure you are well aware, open carry of a firearm is legal without need for a permit outside of a vehicle, unless traveling within Philadelphia, a city of the first class. My personal choice is to primarily carry concealed, as I prefer any potential threat to not be aware of my carry status. However, as a registered LTCF, I do recognize and respect another's right to carry openly whenever they desire.

That being said, the summer weather and need for thinner clothing can present a unique challenge to firearm owners. When the need arises (and when we finally get some sun instead of rain out here), I may choose to open carry due to clothing constraints. I want to be confident that the professional officers of the community I reside, are aware and respectful of the right I am expressing. My desire is to prevent an uncomfortable encounter, for both your officers or me in the future, and verify that my rights will be respected without question or escalation. I am curious on your department's process and procedure when responding to either a non-LEO call for a "Man with a firearm" or perhaps a LEO observing a citizen open carrying while no RAS has taken place. A major concern is that a situation could be escalated with no just cause, leading to an embarrassing or worse, a potentially dangerous situation. I would appreciate your thoughts and response to these concerns.

Thank you for your time and service to our community. Take Care.

He replies and copies in ALL of his LEO, lawyers, politicians and some other random people.... So I do the same out of professional courtesy

Mr. xxxxx: Please be advised that Springfield Officers are well aware of the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms act as it pertains to carrying exposed weapons. However officers are not going to assume that an individual carrying an exposed firearm is simply exercising their right and does pose a possible threat nor are they going to ignore the situation if it arises. Officers approaching such an armed individual would be justified in taking precautionary measures until credibility is established.



Carrying a visible weapon in public could also cause undo alarm to the public at large. As a result the display in all probability will generate emergency calls to the police and again officers would respond cautiously. You should also be cautioned that depending on the circumstances in which the weapon is displayed, to include the perception of the alarmed person(s) you could be faced with other violations of the crimes code



The Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act permits the carrying of an exposed firearm in public but not in all public buildings such as schools or court houses. This right is also not extended to private property. Once again location and circumstance could result in criminal charges..



It would also be ill advised to enter establishments generally victimized by armed robbers as the reception from employees suspecting criminal activity could be less than cordial. LOL



...snip...



Joseph J. Daly

Chief of Police

Springfield Township

50 Powell Road

Springfield, Pa. 19064

(610) 544-6900

Chief Daly,

Thank you, I sincerely do appreciate your prompt reply in addressing my email. I felt that some of your responses were incorrect and misguided. This warranted a reply and a good opportunity to highlight some excerpts from this years MPOETC 2009 update. My intention here is to simply to ensure that a potential LEO encounter is handled appropriately both on my side as well as your officers. Unfortunately, I have experienced some not so positive events when interacting with a LEO in the past (Not your department), where the gentleman clearly was not up to date on the legality of this topic. In an attempt to retain mutual respect and legality awareness on both sides of the fence, I have attached the following. (MPOTEC_OC_Update_2009)

Since you have CC'ed in your direct reports among others, out of professional courtesy, I will do the same. Thank you


Question # 1

-----What is “open carry”?

Answer # 1

-----Open carry can be defined as carrying a legal firearm, loaded or unloaded, on your person unconcealed,
with or without a valid and lawfully issued license to carry a firearm.

Question # 2

-----Is “open carry” legal in Pennsylvania?

Answer # 2

-----Yes



(Quote = Chief Daly) "However officers are not going to assume that an individual carrying an exposed firearm is simply exercising their right and does pose a possible threat nor are they going to ignore the situation if it arises. Officers approaching such an armed individual would be justified in taking precautionary measures until credibility is established."

Question # 3

-----What can police legally do when they observe a person engaging in open carry?

Answer # 3

------In most cases, the police cannot engage the person in anything other than a mere encounter. Unless the person engaged in lawful open carry is in
violation of a specific State or Federal firearm prohibition or is carrying in a restricted area (For example: prohibitions contained in §6105, possession by a
minor §6110.1, possession on school property §912, possession in a court facility §913, carrying in Philadelphia §6108, carrying in a vehicle, carrying
during a declared state of emergency §6107), the officer would not have specific reasonable suspicion of criminal activity merely based on observing a person engaged in open carry. Therefore, a stop and frisk or any other seizure would not be legally justified.


(Quote = Chief Daly) "Carrying a visible weapon in public could also cause undo alarm to the public at large. As a result the display in all probability will generate emergency calls to the police and again officers would respond cautiously. You should also be cautioned that depending on the circumstances in which the weapon is displayed, to include the perception of the alarmed person(s) you could be faced with other violations of the crimes code"


Officers should be aware that citizens may become alarmed or concerned when they witness persons engaged in open carry. This may be due in part to individual sensibilities regarding firearms and the fact that persons engaged in open carry are infrequently encountered in Pennsylvania. However, a citizen’s alarm or concern does not alone negatively impact the rights of a person engaging in the lawful open carrying of a firearm. Officers receiving citizen reports of a “man with a gun” would be prudent to respond to determine the nature of the report. However, the rights of any person engaged in the lawful open carrying of a firearm must be carefully considered when interacting with such person. Persons engaged in the lawful open carrying of a firearm are not subject to seizure of their person or property based solely on the fact that they are engaging in open carry, nor may they be required to produce identification or other documents. A person who is engaging in open carry in Philadelphia or in an area of declared emergency may be required to produce a valid and lawfully issued license to carry a firearm or establish an exemption. Of course, a person engaged in the open carrying of a firearm may engage in violations of other laws or handle the firearm in an inappropriate manner which could constitute offenses such as: disorderly conduct, reckless endangerment, simple assault by physical menace, etc. However, merely engaging in the open carrying of a firearm would not necessarily constitute such an offense.



(Quote = Chief Daly) "It would also be ill advised to enter establishments generally victimized by armed robbers as the reception from employees suspecting criminal activity could be less than cordial."

Chief Daly,

I think it would be acceptable to agree that crimes can take place anywhere and are not limited to our homes, stores, streets, places of employment, etc. I choose to carry for this reason among others. If we could foresee crime by time and location, I would have less of a need to protect myself and family.



(Quote = Chief Daly) "Your self expressed concern for embarrassing or potential dangerous encounters while carrying an exposed weapon are well founded and perhaps you have answered your own question. It is for these very reasons that most citizens seek permits to carry concealed weapons. "

Chief Daly,

I did not express concern for embarrassment or dangerous encounters because of my choice to openly carry based on weather conditions. I expressed these concerns because of potential lack of education or clarification on the part of local law enforcement. Many people from many walks of life choose their method of carry for many different personal reasons. My question was not directed towards my potential reactions/actions to an encounter, but directed toward the process and procedure of officers.



Thank you for your time.

Respectfully,

5 days pass with no response..... Crickets....crickets....

I send this.

Captain Daly,

Good Morning. Just to confirm that you had received my previous email, should I expect a followup phone call or email after you have had time to review the documentation? Thank you again for taking time out of your day to speak with me on this very important public safety topic. Take care.

Crickets crickets....

[God's Country]

Sure it's not this Springfield

simpsons-mayor-quimby.jpg wiggum.jpg

Because that would make sense.

[Feddog82]

Whos up for an open carry gathering in Springfield?

There have already been several open carry dinners at Famous Dave's in Springfield without any problems as far as I have heard. (I was not there but didn't hear about any problems.) Even if it seems that this rule being on the books could cause a problem, to my knowledge it has not. I live in Delco and work/shop/pass through Springfield regularly. I have open carried several times and not had a problem whether it be out to dinner, at an after work function, getting gas, stopping at WAWA, or whatever. Springfield is a nice town with a high population density and they recieve a lot of thru-traffic daily. In my opinion there is a very low chance of seeing an LEO in Springfield anyway. I currently work in springfield and never see cops. THey are busy harrassing the guys on the picket line at the intersection of rt.420 and rt.320. Apparently they have a problem with public protest too.