Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default ? on crosshairs not moving

    Hi all,

    I have a questions regarding my scope crosshairs but first a little background.
    Growing up I was always a shotgunner but in the past two years or so I have gotten into rifles. I first got a 22lr with iron sights to handle the basics and then moved onto a scoped 22lr. With that rifle I mounted the scope and using a bore sighter was able to see the crosshairs move to the sighting spot. It zeroed in no problems at the range.

    I have recently moved up to a centerfire rifle that has a mounted scope but when I put in my boresighter I see no movement by my crosshairs no matter how many clicks I move. It's a brand new Barska scope and while not a leupold or better optic it was about a hundred bucks and was brand new.

    I was informed by the store that a newer scope won't show movement of the crosshairs as my rimfire scope did and rather I will just have to sight it in starting at 25 yards and move out. They told me that the lack of movement of the crosshairs is to keep the scope centered in the tube.

    Is this correct or is the scope broken. I have not taken it out to sight in and would like to save the ammo if what they are saying is wrong.

    Thank you guys for any answers you may have.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: ? on crosshairs not moving

    If the .22 RF scope hairs moved so you could adjust them that they no longer formed 4 equal sections, ie. that the vertical or horizontal lines could be over or under center then that older style scope was known as ' not perma center'. The lines did move seperately.

    A 'perma center' reticle will look like this ' + ' regardless of the clicks made.

    If when making adjustments using the Elevation & Windage dials and the grid/scale in the bore sighter moves respectively then the reticle is moving.

    Now whether it's tracking correctly is another matter.

    PS: Dealer is wrong.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: ? on crosshairs not moving

    Thanks, what he told me sounded fishy.

    My 22lr scope is permacenter because the whole + moved when adjusted, not independantly.
    This scope must be busted because their is no movement. I turned the side and top knobs all the way both sides and it never budged compared to where it started on the boresighter. now to see what their return policy is.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: ? on crosshairs not moving

    Busted scope. Dealer is full of shit, as your reticule should move when your adjust the turrets.
    "A government big enough to give you everything you have, is also big enough to take it all away.
    Gerald Ford.

    Happiness is 5,000 rounds of match ammo.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: ? on crosshairs not moving

    Quote Originally Posted by ByAnyMeans View Post
    ...

    I was informed by the store that a newer scope won't show movement of the crosshairs as my rimfire scope did
    This seems to be a characteristic of better quality telescopic sights, I use Leupold scopes and they have this same property. It's too late at night to go into the reasons why in a single post.

    Quote Originally Posted by ByAnyMeans View Post
    and rather I will just have to sight it in starting at 25 yards and move out.
    This sounds correct. Most of the scopes I've used recently followed this same behavior. I don't look for reticule movement, I watch for a change in point of impact.

    Here's a quick test: Hold the scope down on a table, shelf or other convenient mount. Tape or ty-wrap it down if necessary. While looking through the scope, move the reticule knobs and see if the reticule changes position. Don't let the scope move! It might look like the reticule is stationary and the picture appears to move. If so, it's working. No change in position with respect to the target=scope problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by ByAnyMeans View Post
    They told me that the lack of movement of the crosshairs is to keep the scope centered in the tube. ....
    This is an interesting question, because it suggests you have telescopic sight with a fair amount of magnification. Does you scope have a means of focusing on the front as well as the back?

    With old scopes lacking parallax correction, crosshairs out of center were easily confused with parallax error. with lower magnification, the scopes were usually calibrated to 100-150 yards and that was adequate for most users. As magnifications increased, parallax error became more of a problem.

    Adjustable Objective is used to counteract parallax, basically recalibrating the scope for the new distance.

    Glossary >link<.

    Relevant articles:
    http://www.nightvisionplanet.com/Articles.asp?ID=124
    http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/selectscope.htm
    Last edited by PA Rifleman; February 9th, 2010 at 01:44 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: ? on crosshairs not moving

    Once again, the Quote Wraps on this Forum aren't working. Perhaps there's a setting on my comphewter I need to change? Any suggestions there are appreciated!

    [QUOTE If when making adjustments using the Elevation & Windage dials and the grid/scale in the bore sighter moves respectively then the reticle is moving. [/QUOTE]

    Apology for a misleading & unfinished statement. nce again my ADHD kicked in.

    Should be," If when making adjustments using the Elevation & Windage dials, and the grid scale in the bore sighter moves respectively, meaning when turning Elevation dial the grid scale moves Up/Down, and the Windage moves the grid scale Left/Right then the reticle isn't moving...and it's 'working'.

    Internally what's moving is the zoom tube assembly which contains a set of erector lenses....but not the reticle.

    All modern scopes when working correctly will show some grid scale movement when any W/E adjustment is made. The only difference is how much which depends on the click value. This is easily demonstrated by the bore sighter, or POI movement on the target.

    Most bore sighters are factored @ 100yds, so a 1/8" click value will show less movement than a 1/4" which shows less than 1/2".

    If sighting in @ only 25 yds...and the scope click value is set @ 100 yds there will be only 1/4th the movement. Depending on the scope quality and if not properly adjusted this will be hard to see.

    Generally speaking if <10X the average human eye won't see Parallax if the scope manufacturer correctly assembled & adjusted the scope. Also, if you keep your eye centered w/the Eyepiece you won't see any Parallax.

    Dealer is still wrong on both counts, or like me got a disconnect from brain. Now where's my Ritalin?
    Last edited by Guns & Glass; February 9th, 2010 at 12:23 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: ? on crosshairs not moving

    some less expensive scopes have issues tracking, and need to have a few shots fired to try and jog them into moving. Sometimes you'll see someone sighting in a scope, then tapping it a few times. They are trying to make the springs overcome the stiction.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: ? on crosshairs not moving

    Thanks for all the advice guys, gonna just go out and try to see if it zeroes in. I'll let you know how it turns out.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: ? on crosshairs not moving

    Hey guys,

    With all the snow it has been awhile till I could get the rifle out to the range and check the scope. The rifle sighted in fine. The crosshairs never appearred to move but
    POI did so I'm a happy guy. Thanks for your answers.

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