Open carry in and around Franklin County

[gnbrotz]

While it's been a while since I've posted an update, it's not because I haven't been OCing.

Since my last update, I've repeated my typical routine, OCing at many of the same places each week. There have also been some variations that may be worthy of mention.

Several weeks ago, fellow member Pro2A twisted my arm into helping him move. As I was standing on his front steps (downtown Chambersburg) talking to his wife, a borough squad car came up the street, slowing noticeably as it passed. I had by back mostly towards the street, but could see it peripherally. We continued our conversation as the car drove away. Just a few minutes later, it came back from the other direction. As it slowly rounded the corner, and passed just out of sight, I told her to be ready for a couple more cars in just a few minutes. I proceeded to my vehicle, grabbed my recorder, turned it on and dropped it into my pocket. After about 10 more minutes, no one had come back, so we finished up what we were doing and headed out for the next trip. No other patrols came by the rest of the day.

I've also been to my local mall three times while OC. I'd previously visited Sears, entering from the outside, but hadn't really been around the mall. We headed from one end of the mall (where my wife needed to buy something) to the other end so we could grab some subs before heading home. As we made the return trip, I noticed two security personnel ahead, standing just inside one of the stores.

I had already told my wife that while I was OC, I wasn't looking to pick a fight and if I was confronted, I would promptly leave as they had every right to ask me to do so. As we drew closer they slightly eased out of the store, and into the main mall corridor. My wife and I exchanged glances, fully expecting some questions. Since they were now in our path of travel, we shifted slightly to the left, passed around them and continued on without so much as a single word being said. I was truly surprised, but pleasantly so.

I also spent a weekend in VA/NC, OCing at the following places:

• EconoLodge (Portsmouth, VA)
• Hampton Inn (Norfolk, VA)
• Blackhawk Products (Norfolk, VA)
• Freemason Abbey Restaurant (Portsmouth, VA)
• 7-11 (Portsmouth, VA)
• WV Rest area - "Use of firearms" prohibited

Most recently, I paid yet another visit to my local Gander Mountain, this time to return an item. I wouldn't describe my experience as an 'incident', but as it was not the norm, I'll mention it. The letter I have sent to the store manager as a result gives an account of what prompted it's writing:

Dear Mr. Platt,

On the evening of September 24, 2008, I visited your store to return a rifle case that was unsatisfactory. Upon entering, I took my place at the Customer Service counter, behind a couple who was in the process of making a purchase. The clerk on duty (Garrett) told me that I needed to have the case checked. I replied that it was empty, and that I was going to be returning it. He asked me to go ahead and pop it open to show him, and I did so.

He then asked if I had a carry license for the holstered pistol on my hip. I replied to him that one does not need a license to 'open carry' a firearm. He asked again what I had said, and I repeated that “You do not need a license to open carry.” He made no further inquiry, and promptly processed my return as he was done with the previous customer.

I understand and have no issue with the policy of checking firearm being brought in for service, etc. I am also aware of the signs posted regarding those who have a “CCW” (though in Pa., it is called a License To Carry Firearms). I have previously visited your store while open carrying my firearm and have never had an issue.

I want to be clear. At no time was Garrett rude or unprofessional in any way. I also realize that he may be following store policy in regards to his actions, thus my letter to you.

I am requesting that you clarify your store's policy in regards to carrying firearms, either openly or concealed, and any requirement for someone to show their LTCF to store personnel. Even if I had been concealing my weapon (I do have a LTCF), I will not show my LTCF to store personnel if required as a condition of entry. Even the police must have legal cause to make such a demand, and cannot do so arbitrarily or “just to check”.

I also understand that Gander Mountain is private property, and as such, you have the right to allow or disallow certain behaviors there, even if they are legal. If you do not welcome my open carried firearm, or require that I show my LTCF as a condition of entry, please let me know. I will be happy to respect your wishes and take my firearm (and my business) elsewhere.

Sincerely,

New places I've visited since my last report include Antrim Auto Parts in Greencastle and Olympia Ice Cream Parlor in Chambersburg.

[38SnubFan]

Good report Greg. However, I have to respectfully differ with you regarding their policy of carrying a loaded firearm into their store and CCW policy. Since it is private property and their policy is posted that you must have a LTCF to carry into their store; if they ask, it's really no big deal for me to whip it out of my wallet quick and show it to them.

It would be the same as me going to a bar/club and them asking for my ID at the door to verify my age.

I get my best deals at Gander Mountain, so I really never have an issue with the small policies there.

Just my opinion though.

-38SnubFan

[gnbrotz]

Good report Greg. However, I have to respectfully differ with you regarding their policy of carrying a loaded firearm into their store and CCW policy. Since it is private property and their policy is posted that you must have a LTCF to carry into their store; if they ask, it's really no big deal for me to whip it out of my wallet quick and show it to them.

It would be the same as me going to a bar/club and them asking for my ID at the door to verify my age.

I get my best deals at Gander Mountain, so I really never have an issue with the small policies there.

Just my opinion though.

-38SnubFan

I don't think we differ on the understanding of their policy, just how we would personally respond. I acknowledged that they are entitled to have whatever policy they want. I personally will not show my LTCF as a condition of entry, and have never been asked to do such on any previous occasion. If they clarify that this is indeed their policy, I respect that, and will no longer patronize their store.

[jahwarrior72]

I don't think we differ on the understanding of their policy, just how we would personally respond. I acknowledged that they are entitled to have whatever policy they want. I personally will not show my LTCF as a condition of entry, and have never been asked to do such on any previous occasion. If they clarify that this is indeed their policy, I respect that, and will no longer patronize their store.

well, as far as i know, you can be asked to leave private property, but are under no obligation to show any sort of ID to anyone. and as far as GM's policies are concerned, they only require that guns being serviced to be checked with a clerk. they, so far, are perfectly okay with someone walking in with a holstered weapon; i found this out at the Dickson City GM. i think that particular clerk might have just been curious if you needed a license to OC, and that's why he asked.

[gnbrotz]

well, as far as i know, you can be asked to leave private property, but are under no obligation to show any sort of ID to anyone.

As a private property owner, they can set whatever conditions to enter that they wish, as long as it doesn't discriminate against a protected class.

If they wanted to require and strictly enforce "Blue shirts only" as a condition of entry, they could legally do so. Whether or not a majority of their customer base would comply with any such policy would likely have an affect on how long it remained.

[38SnubFan]

I don't think we differ on the understanding of their policy, just how we would personally respond. I acknowledged that they are entitled to have whatever policy they want. I personally will not show my LTCF as a condition of entry, and have never been asked to do such on any previous occasion. If they clarify that this is indeed their policy, I respect that, and will no longer patronize their store.

You are correct - we disagree on how each of us would respond. To me, it's really no big deal, as I don't see a private business attempting to use the information on my LTCF against me.

To each their own.

[gnbrotz]

Since I hadn't yet received a response to my letter (almost two weeks ago), I figured I'd try to reach Mr. Platt by phone. He was in, and asked me to refresh him on my letter, as he was still digging out of a pile of papers that accumulated while he was on vacation. He quickly remembered my letter. He told me that he had already spoken to Garrett and would be issuing a memo to all employees. Bottom line - OC is absolutely permitted, and there is no need to show a LTCF to enter the store. I thanked him for his time, and concluded the call.

[gnbrotz]

Couple of interesting mini-experiences in the last week.

First of all, I had a date with a young lady who I've been corresponding with online. I've been upfront with any potential dates that guns are an every day part of my life. No sweat she said. Because of semi-cool temps, my firearm was concealed during the date, but she asked about it, so pulled up my shirt to reveal my holster

A few days after the date, so wrote and said that actually seeing the gun unnerved her (unexpectedly), and after thinking it over, it wasn't something she was going to get over, so that fish went back into the sea.

I have a date with another brave soul a week from tonight. This lady has also expressed no concern about my firearm, and after talking a little about my "activism" she commented that she thought it was good that I actually acted on my beliefs. She's an 18th century historical reenactor, and owns a black powder pistol. Our second date will most likely be a trip to the range, so I think there's a much smaller chance that she's likely to change her mind about the issue.

Then, last night I stopped at Giant to get a couple of things. There was actually a real cashier that had no line (I usually scan my own stuff), 21, looked at me and said "Hooray for open carry!". I just smiled. He then so I went through her line. The bagger, a young man I believe is under asked me if anyone had ever given me "a beef" about it, and I replied "Only once" as I collected my bags and went on my way.

[fingers80002]

Couple of interesting mini-experiences in the last week.

First of all, I had a date with a young lady who I've been corresponding with online. I've been upfront with any potential dates that guns are an every day part of my life. No sweat she said. Because of semi-cool temps, my firearm was concealed during the date, but she asked about it, so pulled up my shirt to reveal my holster

A few days after the date, so wrote and said that actually seeing the gun unnerved her (unexpectedly), and after thinking it over, it wasn't something she was going to get over, so that fish went back into the sea.

I have a date with another brave soul a week from tonight. This lady has also expressed no concern about my firearm, and after talking a little about my "activism" she commented that she thought it was good that I actually acted on my beliefs. She's an 18th century historical reenactor, and owns a black powder pistol. Our second date will most likely be a trip to the range, so I think there's a much smaller chance that she's likely to change her mind about the issue.

Then, last night I stopped at Giant to get a couple of things. There was actually a real cashier that had no line (I usually scan my own stuff), 21, looked at me and said "Hooray for open carry!". I just smiled. He then so I went through her line. The bagger, a young man I believe is under asked me if anyone had ever given me "a beef" about it, and I replied "Only once" as I collected my bags and went on my way.

Shouldn't you love life be in the lounge?

[gnbrotz]

Shouldn't you love life be in the lounge?

Love life? That's not even on the horizon. And even if it were, you won't find it posted here!

It almost had to go in the CC forum, but since I did a "reveal" during the date, it qualifies for OC.