New guy here, ton of questions:

[Glennp]

Hello, new to the forums here.
I recently turned 21 (thank god!) and since I can’t get out of this state anytime soon, I figure I’ll do the next best thing and get a Florida nonresident CC permit.

1.) I have been reading both the PA and FL laws (PA will be the state I’ll carry in, the 25 others I don’t ever go to really and I will research them as I see fit) Anyways, first basic question: Are all the laws in reciprocal states very similar? For instance, if I’m intimatly familiar with PA and FL laws, and I go to DE, do I need to study the laws deeply?(already looked, and its hard to get clear info there!) Or do I assume (yeah, I hate that word) that the laws all get to the same point?

2.) Im 99.99% certain but, I follow the laws of the state I am in, correct? Not the issuing state?


3.) Anyways, a few hypothetical questions that apply to carrying in PA.

a.) I’m in a store that is encountering an armed robbery. I am not being directly threatened but the clerk is. Stand down? If the gun starts getting waved around to others (including possibly myself) then I can proceed with deadly force?

b.) Somebody is getting the cr@p beaten out of them to the point of near (or possibly) death. Do I protect the third party? If I can, do I have the ability to draw and verbally engage before firing if I do indeed have the right to use deadly force?

4.) I presume you cannot belly up to a bar while carrying (which does make sense!) but can you consume any alcohol? (read: not get wasted, just consume a beer or so)

5.) I know OC is legal for you PA residents, and while im not about to go OCing, im just wondering if its legal for a non resident? The reason I would like to know is if a jacket slips up while CCing, etc I don’t want to be “brandishing”.

I know these may be relatively nooby questions, but nothing would be worse than headed out CCing uneducated!

Thanks guys!

[Steve_NEPhila]

Welcome. I will try to answer all of your questions.

1. The laws are all different. Make a cheat sheet and study the laws of where you are going. They are not all the same.

2. State laws apply to the state you are standing in. Jurisdiction is based on where you are. Follow the law of the place you are.

3. A. PA has specific requirements on the application of deadly force. Other states have their own rules. I cannot answer the hypothetical you pose, you must use your own judgment. However, PA law allows for the application of deadly force if your (or another persons life) life is in jeopardy and there is no way to escape in complete safety.

3. B. Again, you must learn the law of the state you are in. There are no clear cut situations. You as the actor are solely responsible for your actions.

4. In PA you can "belly up" to a bar with a pistol open or concealed, unless the bar asks you to leave. You can drink alcohol while bearing a firearm in PA. You should read the law. There is no "legal limit" for intoxication while bearing a firearm, you can drink as much or as little as you choose in PA while carrying a weapon. The decision if that is reasonable is entirely up to the individual.

5. There is no "brandishing" statute in PA. Furthermore, PA law is not only extended to "citizens" but to all people within the jurisdiction of PA. Where you stand, the law applies to you... there is no need to be a citizen. The stickies in this section are informative and helpful. You can CC or OC in PA if you follow the law, there is no need to be a citizen of PA.

[knight0334]

Hello, new to the forums here.
I recently turned 21 (thank god!) and since I can’t get out of this state anytime soon, I figure I’ll do the next best thing and get a Florida nonresident CC permit.

1.) I have been reading both the PA and FL laws (PA will be the state I’ll carry in, the 25 others I don’t ever go to really and I will research them as I see fit) Anyways, first basic question: Are all the laws in reciprocal states very similar? For instance, if I’m intimatly familiar with PA and FL laws, and I go to DE, do I need to study the laws deeply?(already looked, and its hard to get clear info there!) Or do I assume (yeah, I hate that word) that the laws all get to the same point? The laws are different amongst all the states. Learn them for the states you travel.

2.) Im 99.99% certain but, I follow the laws of the state I am in, correct? Not the issuing state? Correct.. When in Rome, do as the Romans.


3.) Anyways, a few hypothetical questions that apply to carrying in PA.

a.) I’m in a store that is encountering an armed robbery. I am not being directly threatened but the clerk is. Stand down? If the gun starts getting waved around to others (including possibly myself) then I can proceed with deadly force? Since the clerk is in his place of work, he/she is not required to retreat - so neither are you if you seek to protect him/her if you believe he/she faces a life threatening situation, serious bodily injury, rape, or kidnapping.

b.) Somebody is getting the cr@p beaten out of them to the point of near (or possibly) death. Do I protect the third party? If I can, do I have the ability to draw and verbally engage before firing if I do indeed have the right to use deadly force? The use of force(non-deadly) is less restrictive than deadly force. If you are justified to use deadly force, you are certainly justified to use "force" or to compel the aggressor in other ways. Sometimes its best to stay out of things and be a good witness. But those in PA also have the power to stop violent crimes, and to arrest those you believe have committed a felony, and those you personally witness commit a breach of the peace.

4.) I presume you cannot belly up to a bar while carrying (which does make sense!) but can you consume any alcohol? (read: not get wasted, just consume a beer or so) Yes you can. Read the sticky post about where you can and cannot carry in PA.

5.) I know OC is legal for you PA residents, and while im not about to go OCing, im just wondering if its legal for a non resident? The reason I would like to know is if a jacket slips up while CCing, etc I don’t want to be “brandishing”. Yes, 14th Amendment(?) says laws apply equally.

I know these may be relatively nooby questions, but nothing would be worse than headed out CCing uneducated!

Thanks guys!

In red bold above

[Glennp]

Thanks for the answers so far. One more:
Can I go withen the 1,000 ft of a school? I dont have a "license issued by the state in which the school is" so thats a NO, correct?

[Steve_NEPhila]

I would not do it if I were you.

[knight0334]

Thanks for the answers so far. One more:
Can I go withen the 1,000 ft of a school? I dont have a "license issued by the state in which the school is" so thats a NO, correct?

That would technically be "no" in PA unless you have a license issued by PA. However, that federal law is rarely upheld, and is usually used in conjunction with other offenses like dealing drugs, etc.

[donm]

Technically you would run afoul of Federal law by being within 1000 feet of a school. In practice, it's almost impossible not to violate this while traveling through any urban or suburban area. It's been struck down by the courts and re-written by Congress over a decade ago. If anyone is ever charged with it in the future, it will almost certainly be an add-on to other far more charges. But it is still on the books.

I strongly suggest you pick up a copy of Mas Ayoob's classic "In the Gravest Extreme." It's 30 years old but other than advice on selecting guns it is still more than relevant. It addresses a lot of legal and ethical issues related to armed self defense. Available from most gun related sites and of course Amazon.

[unloved]

Technically you would run afoul of Federal law by being within 1000 feet of a school.

Within 1000' of the boundaries of school grounds, not the building.

[tomgun1]

what steve and knight said,excelent advice,suggested reading,"In the greatest extreme"by Massad F. Ayoob.
my copy is a little dated,1980 im sure theres a new version on amazon but it's a must read for all.

[donm]

what steve and knight said,excelent advice,suggested reading,"In the greatest extreme"by Massad F. Ayoob.
my copy is a little dated,1980 im sure theres a new version on amazon but it's a must read for all.

In fact Mas has never updated this book, though he has of course written others. But other than his advice on guns (semi-autos were just coming on the SD and LE scene back then), it still applies.