Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default HELP WITH C&R handgun transfer questions please

    Hi guys, I recently got my C&R and have some questions about it. The rules to me, are kind of confusing. I have bought so far from FFL(01) and from FFL C&R (03) licensees. BUT, I have some questions about selling and buying from non licensees. Maybe you guys can help. I realize if I buy or sell through the mail to a non license holder in another state and need to ship the gun to them, it must go through an FFL (01), BUT....

    what if I buy from a non licensed person here is PA, who is a PA citizen, face to face? Do I give them a copy of my C&R and take their PA Driver's license info?

    What if here in PA and they are from another state, like say NY? How about selling a gun to either person, here in PA? And lastly what if I am in their state?

    Help appreciated, just trying to figure how this works.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: HELP WITH C&R handgun transfer questions please

    Quote Originally Posted by Stez View Post
    what if I buy from a non licensed person here is PA, who is a PA citizen, face to face? Do I give them a copy of my C&R and take their PA Driver's license info?
    Assuming ONLY C&R weapons, you will need their information to show acquisition for your bound book. They really don't need a copy of your FFL.

    What if here in PA and they are from another state, like say NY? How about selling a gun to either person, here in PA?
    If the have a C&R no problem. You'll need a copy of it, again for your book. If they are NOT licensed then no.

    And lastly what if I am in their state?
    You can buy with your C&R either from a dealer, collector or unlicensed person as long as the weapon is C&R eligible and they are willing to accept your license. Nothing says they have to.

    Be careful. State laws vary. If you're not sure then don't do it.

    Read and reread your regulations book and don't forget to read the state laws also.

    IANAL
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: HELP WITH C&R handgun transfer questions please

    Karl,
    ok, so if I understand correctly, I can legally BUY a C&R handgun with the C&R 03 license, from any non licensed person in any state, including mine, taking down their name and driver's license number. But when I SELL or dispose of a C&R handgun, I need to do it through a FFL or another C&R? Does this sum it up fairly well?


    Gerard

  4. #4
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    Default Re: HELP WITH C&R handgun transfer questions please

    From the BATFE

    Q: Can a licensed collector sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State?

    Yes. A licensed collector is specifically authorized to sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State so long as 1) The purchaser meets with the licensee in person at the licensee’s premises to accomplish the transfer, sale, and delivery of the rifle or shotgun; and 2) The sale, delivery, and receipt of the rifle or shotgun fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States.

    [27 CFR 478.96 (c)(1)]

    Q: Does the Federal firearms law require licensed collectors to comply with State laws and local published ordinances which are relevant to the enforcement of the GCA?

    Yes. It is unlawful for any licensed collector to sell or deliver any firearm or ammunition to any person if the person’s purchase or possession would be in violation of any State law or local published ordinance applicable at the place of sale or delivery.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(2), 27 CFR 478.99(b)(2)]

    Q: Does a license as a collector of curio or relic firearms authorize the collector to engage in the business of dealing in curios or relics?

    No. A collector’s license only enables the collector to transport, ship, receive, and acquire curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, and to make disposition of curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, to any other licensee, for the period stated on the license. A collector’s license does not authorize the collector to engage in a business required to be licensed under the Act. Therefore, if the acquisitions and dispositions of curios and relics by a collector brings the collector within the definition of a manufacturer, importer, or dealer, he shall qualify as such. A dealer’s license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a) and 923(a)(1), 27 CFR 478.41(c)(d)]

    Q: Are licensed collectors transfers of curio or relic firearms subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees?

    No. Transfers of curio or relic firearms by licensed collectors are not subject to the requirements of the Brady law. It is, however, unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of persons prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.

    [18 U.S.C. 922 (d), (t), 27 CFR 478.32 (d)

    More info about C&R can be found here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html

    Hope this helps.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  5. #5
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    Default Re: HELP WITH C&R handgun transfer questions please

    OK, so then for a handgun, which is not specifically mentioned here, you go by the state laws when SELLING a C&R handgun? That would mean going through an ffl in pa, I believe. In another state, it would go by the law of the state you were in then?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: HELP WITH C&R handgun transfer questions please

    Quote Originally Posted by Stez View Post
    OK, so then for a handgun, which is not specifically mentioned here, you go by the state laws when SELLING a C&R handgun? That would mean going through an ffl in pa, I believe. In another state, it would go by the law of the state you were in then?

    YES, If the C&R handgun is going to a non-C&R person.

    NO, If going to another C&R licensee. Because: A collector’s license enables the collector to transport, ship, receive, and acquire curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, and to make disposition of curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, to any other C&R licensee.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  7. #7
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    Default Re: HELP WITH C&R handgun transfer questions please

    Ron, thanks. ok, so if I understand correctly, I can legally BUY a C&R handgun with the C&R 03 license, from any non licensed person in any state, including mine, taking down their name and driver's license number. So really the selling of the C&R handgun is the tougher part and comes down to the state laws and being careful to follow them when selling to a non C&R holder? I think I am close to understanding this.

    -Stez



    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    YES, If the C&R handgun is going to a non-C&R person.

    NO, If going to another C&R licensee. Because: A collector’s license enables the collector to transport, ship, receive, and acquire curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, and to make disposition of curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, to any other C&R licensee.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: HELP WITH C&R handgun transfer questions please

    Quote Originally Posted by Stez View Post
    So really the selling of the C&R handgun is the tougher part and comes down to the state laws and being careful to follow them when selling to a non C&R holder? I think I am close to understanding this.

    -Stez
    By Jove, I think he's got it . That's that way I read the rules.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  9. #9
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    Default Re: HELP WITH C&R handgun transfer questions please

    I believe so.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: HELP WITH C&R handgun transfer questions please

    Me Three!

    unlicensed to -03
    -03 to -03
    -03 to unlicensed
    -03 to unlicensed THROUGH an -01
    "...a REPUBLIC, if you can keep it."

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