Shipping a long gun Intrastate question.

[Justin]

Ok, I searched all over the forum for an answer to this, but i cant find one. I guess I'm looking for advice moreso than a concrete answer.

If I decide to sell my rifle to a buyer on the other side of the state, and buyer wants to use a 3rd party moving/shipping company as a delivery service to pick up from me and deliver to buyer(buyer has bought antique furniture or something in my area, and already has contracted a mover to pick up and deliver this stuff) Obviously I would take pictures of the packaging as it leaves my hands, and demand an invoice/reciept from mover.

Well, my question is, how would I go about ensuring the buyer was legally able to purchase said rifle? I've done FTF transfers, and we signed a bill of sale, and Mutually showed drivers license to confirm identity for bill of sale. I know the only way to be 100% sure is with a PICS check, but how would you go about this?

I am thinking that I may just have to say no to the 3rd party mover and ship to a ffl local to buyer.

[knight0334]

How...

1. Receive payment from purchaser
2. pack up rifle/shotgun in accordance to FedEx or UPS requirements
3. Ship via the common carriers above(not sure if "movers" are considered as "common carriers")
4. Spend your cash as you see fit and be happy.

You dont have to know 100% that the person has no legal disqualifications. The requirement is "Reason to believe"... if that person said to you he is allowed to own or possess such things, you have no reason not to believe him/her.

Only handguns require the background check for private sales.

However, you could have him sign a document stating he has no legal disqualifications and having him attach a copy of his DL to match his signature.

[Justin]

How...

However, you could have him sign a document stating he has no legal disqualifications and having him attach a copy of his DL to match his signature.

I was thinking I may have him print out the bill of sale on his end, sign it, and mail it back to me in duplicate with a copy of his D/L

[Pa. Patriot]

(buyer has bought antique furniture or something in my area, and already has contracted a mover to pick up and deliver this stuff)

This sounds suspiciously like a COMMON scam on the internet. Did you happen to have the gun listed on gunbroker or a popular gun forum?

Did the buyer say the "third party moving co." will deliver payment upon pickup? Namely a cashiers check?

If so, RUN. It is a common scam being run for years on cars, guns, furniture, etc.

[Justin]

Thanks for the heads up, I am already wary that it could be a scam and am proceeding with caution, but he has agreed to send a check and wait until it cleared before any action to ship on my part. I still havent agreed to sell the gun, this is what he offered me.

And no, He didnt use those specific terms.

I have already asked for a phone number so that I could verify that he was legit. Believe me, I absolutely will contact the authorities if this guy tries to scam me. Stealing a gun is no small business.

[Xringshooter]

You are better getting a USPS money order (or for that matter any commonly well known, popular, etc. MO). It is actually safer for him also in that if he sends you a USPS MO and you don't send the gun he can file mail fraud charges. A check (personal or cashiers) can be cashed at your bank and later (sometimes, much later) show up as bad. You can also mail the rifle to the buyer (for those that are going to jump on me saying that he can't mail it, remember, it is staying within PA so that is allowed by USPS regs). If you mail it you send it Registered, return receipt. That way he has to sign for it and the signed receipt gets mailed to you. Then if he later claims that you did not send it you have the receipt saying he signed for it.

The above is not to give you cold feet about selling, just precautions to take. I have done many sales non-FTF and acted as the transfer agent for many non-FTF personal sales and have never run into one that was not legit. I would however have him mail or fax a copy of his DL and then complete the bill of sale and send him a copy with the gun. That way if something goes astray later you have the documents (and his DL info) showing how the transaction was completed.

As for your question about insuring that he is allowed to purchase, you cannot do a check through PICS, only a FFL (or Sheriff, plus other LE I would assume) can do this. The law as written does not put any burden of proof on you. Now, if he says he doesn't have a DL then he should immediately offer another form(s) of ID such as the state ID card or other ID that shows his complete street address (PO Box is not a legal address). If something happens down the road and it is found that he cannot own a firearm then the firearm will be confiscated but no one will ask for the money back. The LE folks may ask you some questions but you have done everything according to the laws so you have nothing to worry about.

[KeithPA]

I've bought two guns over the internet via instate residents and had them mailed to my house. An AR receiver and an AK.

One time I scanned a copy of my DL and passport and watermarked the hell out of them. The other time I talked to the person on the phone and just confirmed I'm 18. I was wary enough of sending a scanned copy of any even though it was unusable due to alot of watermarks, I definately would never sign a bill of sale. I sold one AK locally and had someone asked for a bill of sale and I told them it was no longer for sale. Don't like people keeping info about me.

All you need is confirmation verbally or written they are of age and not restricted from owning a gun. That's it. Pretty simple. I wish we were like KY and could do handguns the same way, save alotta money. Why ask to simply ship to this guys house? Forget the 3rd party mover thing.

[Justin]

Ha...his reply to my last email is kind of a joke. Totally trying to scam me, which I've been cautious of the whole time. Completely skirted a few questions I asked in my last email, in particular the one where I asked if he was a legal PA resident and what the name of this 3rd party mover was.

Should I contact the authorities about this guy trying to purchase guns illegally, should I just not-so-politely let him know it is no longer for sale to him?

[netw0rkpenguin]

Should I contact the authorities about this guy trying to purchase guns illegally?

Pretty sure you have a legal obligation to. Call/email BATFE.

[bogey1]

Thanks for the heads up, I am already wary that it could be a scam and am proceeding with caution, but he has agreed to send a check and wait until it cleared before any action to ship on my part. I still havent agreed to sell the gun, this is what he offered me.

And no, He didnt use those specific terms.

I have already asked for a phone number so that I could verify that he was legit. Believe me, I absolutely will contact the authorities if this guy tries to scam me. Stealing a gun is no small business.

i got hosed on gunbroker for a silencer, called the fbi, state police, ect.. they did absolutely nothing.. i did the investigating myself, found out the ass hole was in jail for scamming people. be careful when buying online