M16 Lower +22lr upper

[marinedad]

Gents hope this is the correct area for this question.
I've seen some folks on youtube firing an M16/M4 style gun and spitting out 22lr cases like crazy. My question: is it as simple as getting your NFA 16 lower and one of the autotrip 22lr conversions to make this dream come true?

I might be moving to PA and wanna see what options are available to get that 22 MG I've always wanted. Not available in WA State.
Maybe that's actually two questions. 2nd, is that tact gonna be totally legal once you got your NFA lower?

Thanks again

[H22ate]

Gents hope this is the correct area for this question.
I've seen some folks on youtube firing an M16/M4 style gun and spitting out 22lr cases like crazy. My question: is it as simple as getting your NFA 16 lower and one of the autotrip 22lr conversions to make this dream come true?

I might be moving to PA and wanna see what options are available to get that 22 MG I've always wanted. Not available in WA State.
Maybe that's actually two questions. 2nd, is that tact gonna be totally legal once you got your NFA lower?

Thanks again

I know with a SBR they ask what calibers are going to be run through the gun .223 9mm .22. Im not sure if it is the same with full auto caliber changes.

[JayBell]

M16 and 22 conversions are never ...."easy"... some run pretty good out of the box, others will need serious tweaking to run well...or at all.

the 22lr is a pretty dirty cartridge, its cheaply made, and pretty flimsy, so feed angle requirements, bullet shape, rim thickness, and powder charge vary widely.

All can cause issues on feeding and extraction, and cycling. throw in the type of kit, type of adapter, the barrel length and type, the upper being used, the lower being used, the sear position, the hammer spring strength, the kit spring strength... its almost boggling how many types of errors can happen and prevent the gun from cycling in full automatic.

be aware that the problems generally dont show up in SEMI operation...

however... this DOES require the host m16 first, then adding the Kit (most often a Ciener Atchisson Conversion) and currently the Black Dog Machine magazines.

so you have to get a registered receiver m16 first(DIAS and lightning link conversions are more difficult to make work) so thats $10k minimum on average, then make an upper and a kit combo, get mags...etc.

theres several other solutions for a 22mg:

Full auto 10/22s...
Full auto uzis with a 22 kit
American 180 full auto

it goes on.

but... basically, YES, its just as simple as getting a NFA lower, and the appropriate parts.

only PERMANENT caliber changes need ATF notification.

[marinedad]

Hey JayBell,
Thanks for the info. Oh I'm sure there's major tweaking to be done. I was focusing on the legal part and mechanicals of making it work.

I think I saw Compass Lakes or Spike Tac. offering an upper that "only" needed a registered 16 lower to mount into to produce the fun of 22 MG.

American 180 would be great but I don't know if I want to eat baloney for a year for the tariff for a 180.

But one of those 10/22s I see on youtube would fit the bill too, kinda.

[JayBell]

Hey JayBell,
Thanks for the info. Oh I'm sure there's major tweaking to be done. I was focusing on the legal part and mechanicals of making it work.

I think I saw Compass Lakes or Spike Tac. offering an upper that "only" needed a registered 16 lower to mount into to produce the fun of 22 MG.

American 180 would be great but I don't know if I want to eat baloney for a year for the tariff for a 180.

But one of those 10/22s I see on youtube would fit the bill too, kinda.

"only" is deceptive, sure, it "only" needs the upper, the kit, the mags, etc... THEN comes the tweaking.

believe me, i've had my m16 since 2000...and had about 5 different 22 uppers... none have been 100% reliable.

the price on a M16 is about $12 thousand now...how much baloney eatin is that?

[mojo]

Hey JayBell,
Thanks for the info. Oh I'm sure there's major tweaking to be done. I was focusing on the legal part and mechanicals of making it work.

I think I saw Compass Lakes or Spike Tac. offering an upper that "only" needed a registered 16 lower to mount into to produce the fun of 22 MG.

American 180 would be great but I don't know if I want to eat baloney for a year for the tariff for a 180.

But one of those 10/22s I see on youtube would fit the bill too, kinda.

I didn't think that there was too much of a difference in price between an American 180 vs the M16. That's relative difference.

[Nate7667]

Im with mojo when you compair the price of the two vs versatility.
If you're really thinkin about dropping the coin on FA, even if its just for a 22LR, save a little longer and get the M16. You have way more options with it.
And to be honest, most AM180 i have seen require the same or even more tweeking than a M16 22LR.

[cdi]

I have been working with a Spikes Tactical here in the shop in my spare time.
It's on an m16a1 lower.
Dedicated bbl. (no chamber insert) full auto trip kit, etc.

It has been a real p.i.t.a. to get running. When I first assembled it, it would not run semi or full-

It's now running in semi very well and full at about 2 stoppages per mag dump.

Very cool accessory for an NFA lower but expensive and sensitive. I think (on a bipod) it will put bursts on whistle-pigs out to at least 100M.

I plan on finding out this spring...

[ungawa]

I went with the Spike's upper. IT was expensive then, and they are crazy expensive now.

I got it, installed anti-bounce weight, ball detent, and auto trip. No auto. Not jamming, just no auto. The auto trip needed filing. I filed, tested, filed, tested, nothing. Sent a picture of it to Spike's, they said I filed it too far and sent me a new one. Boom, instant full auto. The new one they sent appeared to have been closer to the right size, presumably to get more working out of the box or require less filing to get it done.

I should have clarified it worked in my garage - suppressed. Took it to the range, no love. I wanted it to work unsuppressed. Started trimming springs, changing springs, full length springs, stronger detent springs, all of this just got me different kinds of malfunctions. I was screwing around and mis-diagnosing problems.

Finally, I got some hot ammo and went back to the original spring, unmodified. Success. I can go hundreds of rounds without a jam, or sometimes I get a couple up front right after cleaning. Unsuppressed, I must use high quality, hot ammo with projectiles that don't have oversized diameter/bands for proper feeding. Suppressed, it shoots any type of HV ammo as long as the projectiles are the right size. I'm happy with that and have given up tuning.

They are probably easier to tune to various ammo if you use a reduced force hammer spring. But I didn't want to do that. These are just generalities and may not apply to all kits. Getting bolt into battery - you need enough recoil spring force to feed the round and close bolt reliably. Extracting and ejecting - here, the blowback must overcome the force of both the hammer spring and the recoil spring to work reliably. So, if you keep the mil-spec (strong) hammer spring, you are limited how much force you can have on the recoil spring. And limited by how low power your ammo can be. Once you reduce the strength of your hammer spring, you can use a stronger recoil spring for better feeding. And still have the total force required to extract and eject less than before, allowing weaker/less consistent ammo.

[Lycanthrope]

I've shot my friend's Lakeside Machine .22 belt fed upper on his M16 several times.

Runs great with the cloth belts....not as good with the plastic links. Prefers high velocity ammo as a lot of auto guns do.

Perfect gun if squirrels go "zombie".

Lycanneverspentmorethan$4000onacarthrope