Brass preference?

[Jaybird777]

Just wondering if any of you more experienced reloaders have a preference when it comes to rifle brass?...

I have been reloading for a couple months now for my bolt action 30.06, and have been using 2 different batches of brass, 1 lot of remington, and 1 lot of winchester...

the remington lot is on its 3rd firing with full length resizing in between and case length checks and seems to be holding up so so... first firing was factory, second was 59.0gr of h4831sc with 165gr Nosler Accubond and cci br2 primers, the third was 50.5gr of imr3031 with hornady 110gr Vmax and cci br2 primers. after the hornady loads the remington brass seems to be letting go of the primers... by that i mean that the primers are not loose, but are raised a few thousandths after firing... not sure if this is the brass, or ive also heard it can be caused by low pressure.... i don't see any evidence of gas release around the primer, just raised up a little

any input is appreciated... thanks

[jmanzini]

The easiest response ... did you clean the primer pocket?

Second, I had an old timer tell me his preference was Winchchester brass because it was, to use his term "softer", and that Remington brass was "harder and more brittle".

I was having a similar problem years ago when I asked him. I switched to Winchester brass and CCI primers (another of his recommendations) and no more problem.

Hope this helps.

[Jaybird777]

yeah, the primer pockets were cleaned well each time...

the other thing i forgot to mention is that i am seeing a big difference in group sizes...

both lots loaded with 165gr sierra BTHP or 165gr Nosler accubond, 59.0gr h4831, and br2 cci primers:

win brass best 4 shot group is .523 center to center

rem brass best 4 shot group is .975 center to center

[kimber 22]

after the hornady loads the remington brass seems to be letting go of the primers... by that i mean that the primers are not loose, but are raised a few thousandths after firing... not sure if this is the brass, or ive also heard it can be caused by low pressure.... i don't see any evidence of gas release around the primer, just raised up a little

any input is appreciated... thanks

BACK OFF THE POWDER CHARGE IMMEDIATELY!!!

"Raised" primers are signs of HIGH PRESSURE not low. As simply as I can state, there are at least two reasons: First, the primer gets a rearward push at the instant of firing. Everything usually returns to "normal" quickly thereafter. Second, excess pressure can deform the case head, resulting in slightly enlarged primer pockets.

From the Speer website:

Q. I need oversized primers. After firing cases with a pet load that my brother-in-law figured out, new primers are too small for my primer pockets. They fall out.

A. You are on thin ice! You have produced a handload with so much pressure that you've deformed the case head. Pressures have to be at least 20 percent over safe levels for this to happen. Stop, scrap any remaining ammo, and use published data from now on.

If you don't have a good reloading manual, get one and read the sections applicable to reloading in general. Also, look at the component manufacturers websites for Q&A, and call them - they are usually very helpful. You should use load recommendations from the bullet manufacturer, and remember that not all bullets are created equally! Neither are primers, so if you switch from CCI to another brand, start your load work-ups all over again. Safe reloading requires strict attention to detail!!

The group size difference could be due to one or more of the components, and you probably already know that. However, your bullets are not the same, so you cannot assume the brass is the difference. Also, just because your "Winchester" load is producing the best groups in your .30-'06, doesn't mean that my rifle will show the same results.

In reloading, there are a lot of variables to include lot-to-lot variations in components, bullet seating depth or crimp, condition of the firearm, case capacity, headspace, case length, and so on. (Since your "call sign" is Benchy, I doubt there's a rifle problem, but only a gunsmith knows for sure.) Atmospheric conditions can even make a difference. For instance, if you work a load up toward maximum pressure in weather like this cold we've been having lately, then shoot that load during a heat wave, you could unwittingly exceed SAAMI max pressures.

You should always start at the minimum load recommended and work up from there!

Also, your overall cartridge length is important as it is your only visible measure of seating depth. Bullets that are either seated too deeply or too close to the rifling may create excess pressure. Overall case length ties to the crimp. Most rifle bullets are crimped - too much crimp means higher pressure; too little crimp means bullets in unfired cartridges in the magazine may seat more deeply during recoil, causing high pressure (due to seating depth).


I apologize if I misunderstand your description, but if I read it correctly, you are on very thin ice as Speer said. I've loaded enough cartridges starting at or near max loads, and been fortunate enough not to blow up myself or a gun.

FYI - my Hornady manual indicates they used Federal 210 primers and Hornady brass. Both of those are different components than you used, yet you are already over halfway between recommended minimum and maximum charges with the IMR 3031 load you used. The manufacturers will tell you that anytime you change a component, go back to the recommended minimums and start over!


Finally, never trust any information you read on-line, including what I just said, without independently verifying it through reputable publications.


For recommendations - have you gone to Midway's site and looked at the reviews? I usually find them very helpful.

[kimber 22]

P.S. - Alliant will be glad to send you a copy of their manual. Although, you aren't using their powder right now, I have found their discussion of powder characteristics extremely helpful.

[Jaybird777]

the thing that gets me is this...

the original load of h4831sc that i tried (in the rem brass, which caused no problems and shot well) is 59.0 grains. i got that load from my cousins sierra book and that shows 59.9 grains of h4831 being the max...

figuring that i would be reloading for years to come i figured buying a sierra book for myself was a good idea so i did and i got the newest manual (along with the newest speer and nosler books)

the newest sierra book says the max load for that powder (h4831sc) now is 58.7gr as opposed to the 59.9gr max in the older sierra manual... the only thing that has changed is the "sc" designation in the powder name, and everything i can find both online and in the sierra manual states that the 2 powders are virtually identical and can be interchanged.

i didn't see any of these problems with the h4831 loads and either of the two 165gr bt tips i used, the raised primer issue has only been evident with the rem brass and the 3031 load of 50.5gr

as for overall bullet length i am seating the tips exactly .025 off the lands no matter what tip i am using so there should be little or no pressure difference caused by different overall lengthes. I am also weighing each charge individually so there is no discrepancy there.

I only have about 12 of the 110gr hornady tips left loaded up so guess i can pull em and back off a bit, but i chose that load to start with because between my sierra, hornady, and speer manuals, the sierra seemed the most conservative for the 110gr bullets... i believe the 50.5 of 3031 from sierra is halfway between the second highest and max loads while that same charge falls in the middle of the range in the other 2 books.

for the record, my "call sign" as you put it has no reflection or anything to do with my experience in this field, i have been shooting for quite some time but only reloading for a short time.. it was simply the first thing that popped into my head when i registered on this forum... that being said i'll see if i can change it so i don't project such a knowledgeable appearance.

[IronButt]

The easiest response ... did you clean the primer pocket?

Second, I had an old timer tell me his preference was Winchchester brass because it was, to use his term "softer", and that Remington brass was "harder and more brittle".

I was having a similar problem years ago when I asked him. I switched to Winchester brass and CCI primers (another of his recommendations) and no more problem.

Hope this helps.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were referring to me. I've been reloading for 34 yrs & I don't use Rem brass or components for the exact same reason. I use Win primers & if I need to buy brass, which I don't very often, it's Winchester.

[762xIan]

the remington lot is on its 3rd firing with full length resizing in between and case length checks and seems to be holding up so so

If your .30-06 is dedicated to being used in only one rifle, your brass will last a lot longer if you do NOT full length resize. You only should have to neck size your brass. After you fire it the first time it is "fire formed" to your chamber and will only need neck sizing.

I usually am able to go 3 or 4 times with dedicated one rifle .243 brass before it needs a trim. Then I will full length resize and trim, the brass is then good to go for another 3 or 4 loadings.

I think I have about 12 loadings so far on a particular lot (about 20 cases) of .243 brass. I don't load to hot though....right around the middle of what the books recommend.

[jmanzini]

If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were referring to me. I've been reloading for 34 yrs & I don't use Rem brass or components for the exact same reason. I use Win primers & if I need to buy brass, which I don't very often, it's Winchester.

Uncle Al, is it you???

Actually, it was a guy I used to shoot trap with.

[Jaybird777]

If your .30-06 is dedicated to being used in only one rifle, your brass will last a lot longer if you do NOT full length resize. You only should have to neck size your brass. After you fire it the first time it is "fire formed" to your chamber and will only need neck sizing.

it is my intention to keep this brass for this rifle and my plan was also to only neck size the brass, i bought a lee collet die setup but i am not a big fan of it and am currently in the process of getting rid of the lee die setup and acquiring an rcbs neck sizer die... just haven't got around to it yet but thanks for the suggestion...

that said, anyone looking for a lee full length resizer die?... brand new... i will have the collet die to get rid of too as soon as it gets back from lee