Classic Pistol: A negative experience turned positive.

[Steve_NEPhila]

I have been a member at Classic for some time. I have bought a couple of pistols and thousands of rounds of ammunition at their shop. I have spent at least 1500 USD in gunsmithing services getting some of my guns tuned up... I am the kind of customer any business owner would want. Their indoor range is the closest one to my house and for the last year I have shot there about every week, sometimes twice a week. I have also posted a few times in this section on positive experiences at their shop and range. I have been to many local ranges and have never experienced what I am about to recount.

Today I went to the Classic Pistol range with friends. In all there were six of us, four experienced shooter and two novices. We had two lanes and a nice assortment of revolvers, pistols and a black rifle. Both "D" ( a fellow forum member, whom I will not name because I did not ask his permission to use his name) and I were acting as safety/instructors for the group novices, to insure a safe and enjoyable time.

We shot without incident for about 30 minutes when I was waved out by one of the staff. I went outside of the range area to speak with him. He told me to "watch the girls." Three of the six were women, two experienced shooters and the third was a never-ever, and this was her first introduction to the sport. I told him that I was, and would continue to do so and that we would keep it safe.

When recalling the trolley to change the target on a backer the metal target hanger fell off, at the zero yard line. When working to re-attach the hanger it was clear that a retaining pin was missing, and thus the hanger would not be completely secured. "D" and I both observed this, and I wedged the hanger back into the holder and it seemed to fit. Shooting resumed. By the way, we had two lanes. More specifically, lanes 3 and 4 which are in the farthest bay from the shop. This bay is by far the most beat up bay in the entire range.

After another 30 some minutes of safe shooting, and when I was up to shoot the target hanger fell out while the trolley was down range. I went to let the staff know (I do not recall the name of the staffer I dealt with) and he told me that I would have to pay for damage done to the range. I literally thought he was joking, when he first said it.

A few minutes passed by and the staffer came to the lane with the problem. He put up a new hanger and told me again that I was responsible for the "damage." The new target hanger fit nicely into the slot for it and the pin he had also went in securely. This is an important point.

The staffer informed me that he saw "us" shooting the target holder. He went further to state that I must have shot it for it to fall down. I was speechless. He went a little bit further to say that a shooter at another lane was complaining about how the individuals in my party were shooting the baffles, which I guess he meant the walls and ceiling. Mind you, there were no free lanes at the range and there are five lanes in that bay.

The staffer also pulled out his flashlight to show that we clearly shot up the trolley. His evidence was that there were "fresh" holes in the trolley, which he pointed out with his flashlight. It is worthy to note that the trolley had multiple (estimate 12+) clear bullet strikes on the trolley. However, the trolley was still serviceable, as the new hanger fit in nicely. Also note that an inspection did not take place between shooters on a lane at CP.

The staffer floored me when he informed me that I would be charged 30 USD for range damage. I chose not to discuss this with only him and packed our things and proceeded into the shop. As we were checking out I brought up the issue and questioned the staffer and Bob indirectly. This is where the conversation really went south. The staffer stated that he saw us shooting the baffles "on the camera." The camera system at Classic Pistol is very low resolution and not oriented to clearly see down range, it focuses more on the people in the lanes.

The staffer continued to state that he "warned" us about shooting when he called me out earlier. To go a bit further, he stated that the novices (my interpretation was that he meant the women) were shooting wildly. I told him, and Bob that this was unreasonable and that we did not shoot the trolley. I am confident that no member of the party shot the trolley, and I am confident that I did not hit it either. The response by Bob, the owner was "somebody damaged it, so somebody has to pay." Note, Bob did not attempt to affix liability directly on me or my party. Seeing that there was no reason to entertain a "no I did not" and "Yes, you did" exchange I decided that this was a futile exchange. Also, I did not feel like causing a dramatic scene in front of two individuals new to the sport, as their experience thus far had been positive.

This is indeed my side of the story. I, nor did anyone in the party shoot a trolley. The "evidence" of "fresh" bullet strikes to the trolley is in no way indicative of liability by myself or my party. The difficulty to see a bullet strike to "baffles" or trolleys is extreme. Basically you have to be staring at it before it gets hit (if it gets hit) to see that it is hit, and if that is the case, how can one determine which lane the bullet came from? What about the guy or gal that shot in the lane before we did, or yesterday?

As for the Customer Service aspect, this was very very bad form. Bob is the guy in charge at Classic Pistol. His statement of "somebody damaged it, so somebody has to pay" is the worst example of logic and customer service I have experienced at Classic Pistol. I have customers myself, and this is not acceptable treatment.

After settling up, the party was still in the shop at Classic Pistol. The involved staffer felt it necessary to come back to me (with the group) and restate his reasons as to why he was right and we had to pay. Mind you, this is after we paid. I did not speak to him because the matter was over. However, the perception was that he was asserting that he was right and that we were wrong and liable. Again, that is terrible customer service.

The 30 USD "damage" fee was paid to Classic Pistol. However, I can guarantee a few things. The shot up target trolley on lane three will not be replaced any time in the near future. Beware if you have lane three, or any of the others with a damaged trolley. If it falls down, you may be liable for the range damage fee. Most importantly, I can guarantee that I will not buy another pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, box of ammo or accessory at Classic Pistol again. When my prepaid membership expires, I will not be shooting at their range again.

If I or one of my party would have shot the trolley, it would have been acknowledged and without contest paid. Management/Ownership did not handle the situation in the best way possible for all involved. The staffer acted in what I perceived to be a misogynistic fashion by instruction me to "watch the girls," two of those "girls" are damn fine shots and experienced with many firearms. The range is very shot up and I should have contacted the staff when I had a problem with the target hanger, (however, I would probably have been charged for the "damage" anyway) lesson learned.

Congratulations to the staffer, Bob and Classic Pistol. You won your argument because I chose not to engage in a he said she said. Having won your argument, you lost two paying customers (my woman also shoots and patronizes CP and she witnessed this).

For all of you fellow forum members who shoot at the range, take a close look at your target trolley and target hanger. You too could find yourself paying a 30 USD "damage" charge if it were to fall off or malfunction. What happened to us, could indeed happen to you. If you get lane 3, take a look closely... you may be liable next.

See Post #94 for the positive resolution.

[TXDMERC73]

wow what a story of a bad day at the range, i dont blame you for not wanting to go back there if they cant reason with a good paying customer then they can choose "30.00" their last service from you. I would do the same thing, if you feel you didnt break it then you didnt and its their responsibility to check the range for damages before another person uses it, so there wouldnt be any conflicts of who damged what.

[Dr. Girlfriend]

God damn. Reminds me of asking a staffer if a gun I was being shown was made in alternate colors / finishes, and being told, "I don't think it comes in pink."

Yeah, you better "watch the girls." We won't be back to your shop.

[Extinquisher357]

I'm surprised that Bob would act like that.
I never had any problems with him since he took over, as the new owner.

[GreenBlood10]

From reading many of your posts on this forum, you seem to be a very responsible citizen and gun owner. I highly doubt you would damage something and deny it. As far as their customer service or lack thereof, I don't blame you for not wanting to spend another dime there, and if I was in your place I wouldn't either. Definitely better off finding a new shop! Sorry for the bad experience.

GB

[sixstringer]

Businesses need to charge enough to allow for profit and wear and tear.If I do a construction job for a customer and one of my tools breaks,I can't charge them directly.It needs to be padded into the hourly wage on every job to allow for a succesful business.If he can't maintain the range with the present prices he needs to raise them.I would see it differently if you had vandalized the place.This is why the free state gameland ranges are dumps and some hasd to be closed.You get what you pay for.

[jahwarrior72]

yea man nxt time i go ther ima say, you, y u try n rip peeplz off nd shit?



seriously, though, that's two bad experiences there this week. while the first one sounded like bullshit, you sound like you hace a legitimate gripe with them.

[TheF00L]

Post deleted by poster, as I am, doing to almost all my posts.

[tomgun1]

makes me glad my family owns a 75+ acre of great shooting legal land in sellersville pa.........just curious how much USD is the membership to classic pistol?

[GunLawyer001]

This story does seem to go against the trend of positive feedback about Classic Pistol, but it also has the ring of truth. Years ago, I was using an AR-15 pistol, and the bullets were coming out somewhat higher than I thought; in fact, they were exiting the muzzle when the muzzle was looking at the ceiling about 2/3 of the way towards the target. As evidence of how carefully centered I was (in the horizontal axis, anyway) one of the .223 round neatly parted the trolley wire.

In that case, the wire broke exactly when I was firing, so it was clearly my doing. A staffer came running in within seconds, said that would cost me $30, which I paid.

A lot of shooters are no damn good at shooting. Look at the ceiling of any indoor range, the bullet holes in the ceiling start right at the shooting bench. So the staff is used to people causing damage.

But the burden of proof is still on the staff to prove that particular damage was caused by a particular party, and they do in fact have a business that involved people paying to shoot at (or near) their equipment. Damaged items are more likely to fail when the trolley is being shaken by legitimate shots.

I don't know how anyone can distinguish "fresh" bullet strikes from yesterday's bullet strikes, unless the trolley is wet and rusting. Me, I'd want to look at all the other trolleys, see how many of them have similar strikes. I'd also want to see a receipt for the repair costs, and proof that my shot made the repair necessary.

If I didn't think I caused the damage, I would never sign off on it or pay it. If they hold your driver's license hostage or try to bill you, that's another issue, and the police can be called by either party (BTW, I believe your Driver's License is owned by the Commonwealth, so no shop can really keep it for collateral or some sort of mechanic's lien.)

That being said, CP is a nice facility that's set up for major caliber indoor fire. Perhaps they screwed up here. Perhaps they will make amends.