Radnor Township Considering Mandatory Reporting of Lost or Stolen Firearms Could be C

[anonymouse]

What about when the firearm is used to actually murder a police officer? Shouldn't the person who provided the gun be held accountable?

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opini...7?userLogout=y

Editorial: 'Straw' man convicted

If more lowlifes got the message that gun trafficking in Philadelphia would earn them years behind bars, maybe city streets would be less dangerous for brave officers like slain Police Sgt. Patrick McDonald.

That message - along with a measure of justice - was delivered loud and clear this week.

A federal jury convicted the man who transported the illegal handgun used by an ex-con to kill McDonald during a September 2008 traffic stop in North Philadelphia. When sentenced in March for violating weapons laws, Stephen Lashley, 33, could face up to five years in prison.

In the hands of just-paroled Daniel Giddings, the .45-caliber weapon Lashley purchased illegally for cash and marijuana proved lethal when turned on the 30-year-old police sergeant. Giddings also used the pistol to shoot at other officers before being gunned down and killed by police.

Kudos to agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives who tracked the weapon. But the route of the gun into the hands of a killer proved all too common: Lashley, barred from owning a gun because of an earlier drug conviction, bought it from a man who purchased the gun legally in South Carolina. Lashley brought it to Philadelphia and, eventually, it came into Giddings' possession.

For years, guns used in crimes across the city and in Camden have been funneled to both towns' worst neighborhoods in much the same way.

Federal authorities working with Philadelphia District Attorney Lynne M. Abraham and state Attorney General Tom Corbett have been doing a good job lately of breaking up that supply chain. The Lashley prosecution is a high-profile example, but so-called straw buyers like Lashley have been getting convicted in federal court on a fairly regular basis.

While good work by police and prosecutors is critical to fighting trafficking, there's also a major role yet to be played by Pennsylvania lawmakers in enacting tighter gun laws. All they have to do is listen to law enforcement officers and local officials in 160 communities - instead of pledging allegiance to the National Rifle Association.

Police, prosecutors, and community leaders simply want lawmakers to require the reporting of lost and stolen weapons. The statute would give authorities another weapon to pursue gun traffickers, who often claim guns are lost or stolen as a cover story.

Along with Philadelphia, 16 communities have passed their own version of this law in an effort to nudge the state into action. The western community of Aliquippa became the latest to do so last week - ironically, it's only an hour's drive from Penn Hills, where a police officer, Michael Crawshaw, 32, was shot and killed Sunday. His alleged assailant is a career criminal authorities contend used an illegal weapon.

The Crawshaw shooting prompted a gun control group, CeaseFirePA, to call on the General Assembly to "show the courage to pass commonsense reforms to reduce illegal gun trafficking to protect our police."

Indeed, continued inaction by lawmakers would be as callous as any gun trafficker's thoughtlessly delivering a potential murder weapon to the city streets.

I couldn't find any court dockets because it's a federal case. But look at these press releases from the Department of Justice.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/pae/News...leyrelease.pdf

Lashley faces up to 15 years in prison. What about Jason Mack, guy he bought the gun from?

http://www.justice.gov/usao/sc/LiveP...sentencing.pdf

Three years in prison. That's all.

An article about Jason Mack:
http://www3.allaroundphilly.com/blog...p-killing.html

And this one final item also guaranteed to turn your stomach. Charges are now pending in connection with the gun Giddings used to kill Officer McDonald and wound another highway patrolman.

A 29-year-old man from South Carolina will be charged in what appears to be a classic “straw purchase” of a firearm. Jason Mack is believed to have lied on the federal form needed to purchase the gun.

Mack claimed the gun was stolen.

Amazing! He claimed it was stolen, but they were still able to get a conviction!

[son of the revolution]

EXCELLENT WORK anonymouse !!! Thats the kind of stuff that we as a group MUST unearth and use to discredit CeaseFire PA and their supporters PUBLICLY and LOUDLY !! Print all that stuff out and DEMAND answers from CeaseFire Reps !! Shine a harsh light on their bullshit and make them squirm !!! Especially that quote from Erbil, thats gold right there, when one of their own people concede's their ideas may create more problems then they solve.

Rep sent , keep digging !

[WhiteFeather]

Don't forget this one from Pittsburgh

Violet Law article "Over a Barrel"
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/636...er-barrel.html

PLEASE take the time to read and study the Violet Law anti-gun article "Over a Barrel" in which a perp can do 7 straw purchases have only some of the guns recovered, beat the rap of at least 42 years of state jail time only to get a slap on the wrist for probation.

There are NUMEROUS examples of this people walking away from any punishments from the straw purchases in PA this L&S ordinance is claimed to go after and NEVER a word from any CeaseFirePA board members about this, yet they are the ones pushing for L&S at the local level.

WHY NOT?

[anonymouse]

http://www.ceasefirepa.org/node/133

To quote our buddy Joe Grace:

CeaseFirePA Executive Director Joe Grace explained the need for the reform, and its steady progress across the state. “We know Lost or Stolen won’t end gun violence. But it is a critical step in the right direction – sending a message to criminals and illegal gun traffickers, that their disregard for life and law will not be tolerated. Communities across the state are rising up and taking action. It is time for legislators to realize they are behind the curve of what law-abiding Pennsylvanians want on this issue. The people of Pennsylvania – led by mayors, police chiefs, town councils, and faith leaders – from Allentown to Aliquippa - are taking action, led by their local elected officials.”

Actually enforcing the maximum (or even the MINIMUM!) sentences might send criminals a message too, Joe.

Phil Goldsmith, CeaseFirePA Board President, said, “As we work in cities and towns across Pennsylvania, we see a sea change taking place on the gun issue. No longer is it an issue to shy away from because of fear of the National Rifle Association. CeaseFirePA is going toe-to-toe now with the NRA in local communities - and we are winning - as we seek passage of laws that require handgun owners to tell the police when they know their handguns have been lost or stolen. 24 cities and towns have taken action – not just large cities like Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, but also Allentown, Reading, Norristown, Erie, Harrisburg, Lancaster, York Aliquippa, Munhall, Braddock and Wilkinsburg, to name just a few. Still, our representatives in Harrisburg haven't acted yet to make this a statewide requirement. They're slow learners, but are starting to get the message from their constituents in towns across the state.”

http://www.ceasefirepa.org/node/131

“The statewide movement toward reasonable handgun reform is growing every day and includes mayors, city councils, police chiefs, faith leaders, and citizens across the Commonwealth who have joined together to support this reasonable reform and urge our legislators to address the epidemic of illegal handguns in our communities and pass lost or stolen handgun reporting statewide.” said Joe Grace, executive director of CeaseFirePA. The reform has been endorsed by the PA Chiefs of Police Association, the International Association of Chiefs of Police and the Pennsylvania State Police Commissioner, Frank Pawlowski.

http://www.ceasefirepa.org/node/129

CeaseFirePA President Phil Goldsmith praised the decisive action of the Aliquippa Council. “We’ve seen mayors and councils across the state step up and take action to address the danger of illegal guns in their communities,” Goldsmith said. “Most crimes committed with guns are committed by individuals who are prohibited from having them. If this law keeps one gun out of the hands of a dangerous criminal – it’s a success. CeaseFirePA will continue to work with cities and towns across the Commonwealth to pass this reform – and we hope the General Assembly is paying attention. Reform is happening beneath their feet - all across Pennsyvlania – and it’s coming to Harrisburg.”

http://www.opposingviews.com/p/penn-...en-handgun-law

In its decision today, the Commonwealth Court cited earlier holdings which have held that “the regulation of firearms is a matter of concern in all of Pennsylvania, not merely in Philadelphia,” and that the state General Assembly is the “proper forum” for imposing gun regulations.

“We agree with the Commonwealth Court,” Grace said. “We’ve said all along that gun violence is a statewide problem – not a Philadelphia problem. And the issue of reporting lost or stolen handguns to the police is an issue that must be resolved by the Pennsylvania General Assembly. This decision today reaffirms our position. Our focus remains the same - to bring this growing, statewide coalition of cities, towns, Mayors, City Council members, police chiefs, faith leaders, citizens and others to the General Assembly to demand that they pass lost or stolen handgun reporting as a common sense reform to protect every Pennsylvanian.”

So you agree with the court - that only the state can regulate firearms. Yet you want to conspire with municipalities to violate the law, in spite of what the courts have said?

How obvious does it have to be that Ceasefire is using these municipalities as pawns in an attempt to influence the General Assembly?

[Sebastian]

One thing I would suggest to those of you going who are residents of Radnor Township... do you have any friends who are gun owners who can come along just to be other residents in opposition to this ordinance? People that might not be on this forum, but who could come and help make a showing regardless.

I think it's good to have non-residents there, but the more residents you have the better. The residents are the people who can vote out members of the council. If everyone there is a non-resident, especially not even from the area, the media is going to spin you as a bunch of outside activists who are meddling in the affairs of the local township, the residents of whom clearly support this measure. If you have folks there open carry, they'll throw in the "intimidation" bit for good measure.

This is the Philadelphia media you'll be dealing with, the Delco Times, and probably the Montgomery and Chester County papers, all of whom are <i>not</i> going to be friendly to your position. Plus, if the Council is painted as being intimidated by "radical outsider activists" it'll make it much harder for them politically to adhere to your position. The purpose of showing up is to let the council know that there's a) opposition, b) legal problems with the proposal and c) no proof or evidence it does a damned thing to limit gun trafficking. If the media can use anything to paint this as intimidation, it'll make it much harder, politically, for the council to side with you. Don't give the media anything that helps that be the narrative.

[tmg19103]

Will be interesting to see what happens Monday given this:

http://www.saveardmorecoalition.org/...5#comment-9605


Politeia is 100% right on with his post. If we did not have our Haverford Board of Commissioner's meeting Monday night, I would go to the Radnor meeting to object to this ordinance.

John Nagle and the other Commissioners of Radnor took the same oath that I had to take in Haverford, which is to support, obey and defend the Constitutions of the United States and Pennsylvania. I urge the other Radnor commissioners to get out of the car and avoid going over the cliff with John Nagle. I like John as a person, but the power seems to be going to his head. Radnor is having enough financial troubles as it is, why take on the NRA in a battle that you have NO shot of winning. The NRA has more money than God and they will use every cent of it to fight illegal laws. I am not a gun owner, but I am a member of the NRA. They are already blasting e-mails (I have received two already this hour) all over Delaware County. I am taking the time to send another $50 to the NRA today!

If this were a bill banning abortion in Radnor Township, many of you would be screaming that Radnor has no right to ban abortion because Roe vs. Wade made it legal to have an abortion.

We have a very strong Solicitor, Jim Byrne, who would have advised us to steer clear of this ordinance. Apparently, Radnor is receiving bad legal advice or worse, blowing through a STOP sign. To walk into this knowing they are going to be sued is a dereliction of duty.

[anonymouse]

Will be interesting to see what happens Monday given this:

http://www.saveardmorecoalition.org/...5#comment-9605

If this were a bill banning abortion in Radnor Township, many of you would be screaming that Radnor has no right to ban abortion because Roe vs. Wade made it legal to have an abortion.

Are you able to make it to the meeting, tmg19103?

[andrewjs18]

keep on them folks.

I also posted this on PA Revolution in hopes of getting more folks out-

http://www.parevolution.com/state/12...legal-gun-laws

[Kb! Bob]

Am I wrong or does it seem like we might have have something going here?

It seems like there may be a fair amount of speakers, I REALLY wish we could all get together somehow beforehand to figure out what each ther were planning on saying, but that doesnt seem plausible.

I have a question for all, but especially WhiteFeather, SOR, and anyone else who may have spoken in front of a BOC-type group:

The way I see it, our arguement has 3 main points; Illegality, Ineffectiveness, and the misguided motives of groups like CeaseFirePA. Although I would love to have an hour to go into each at length, that aint gonna happen. So, which one do local Govts seem to be responsive to? My gut says Illegality. The BOC is so in bed with CeaseFirePA that I think attacking them, beyond pointing out the groups lies in front of the Board, would be somewhat counterproductive. I dont think that,frankly, the BOC is smart and/or informed enough to understand the "ineffective" arguement, at least without extensive time and research which they will never do. So while I think I will touch on all areas, Illegality will probably be my focal point. Agreed?

Also, it is common knowledge that the Ordinance has been enacted in X number of municipalities. Does anyone know how many CeaseFirePA et al. have tried to lobby unsuccessfully?? It would be nice to tell the BOC that they arent alone in rejecting it.

[son of the revolution]

Am I wrong or does it seem like we might have have something going here?

It seems like there may be a fair amount of speakers, I REALLY wish we could all get together somehow beforehand to figure out what each ther were planning on saying, but that doesnt seem plausible.

I have a question for all, but especially WhiteFeather, SOR, and anyone else who may have spoken in front of a BOC-type group:

The way I see it, our arguement has 3 main points; Illegality, Ineffectiveness, and the misguided motives of groups like CeaseFirePA. Although I would love to have an hour to go into each at length, that aint gonna happen. So, which one do local Govts seem to be responsive to? My gut says Illegality. The BOC is so in bed with CeaseFirePA that I think attacking them, beyond pointing out the groups lies in front of the Board, would be somewhat counterproductive. I dont think that,frankly, the BOC is smart and/or informed enough to understand the "ineffective" arguement, at least without extensive time and research which they will never do. So while I think I will touch on all areas, Illegality will probably be my focal point. Agreed?

Also, it is common knowledge that the Ordinance has been enacted in X number of municipalities. Does anyone know how many CeaseFirePA et al. have tried to lobby unsuccessfully?? It would be nice to tell the BOC that they arent alone in rejecting it.

I'll mull this over and try to come up with a more in depth answer. But for right now the thig that comes to mind is appealing to the ego's of the board members. Yes, there are very often honest to God, good citizens that truly do want to serve their communities, but more often then not, govt office, even something as low level as town council is a spring board to something bigger down the road and a huge ego trip. People start thinking their a " somebody ". In my experience they dont take to kindly to being lied to our embarrased or used. Personally I would try to play up how they are being INTENTIONALLY LIED TO , and being USED , by a special interest group that is provably ripe with hypocrisy and in the end this ordinace if passed WILL BE overturned and potentially cost the City significant legal bills fighting something they CANNOT WIN, and it will be publicly embarrasing to those who support it on the record.