Will these anti-fed gun laws circumvent the 1986 MG ban

[Kaos]

we don't need to see the once-$500.00 AOC 1928 that we spent $15K on last year suddenly drop to $500.00 or less anytime soon, Thank You.

So...keep the dumb law in place because the people who decided they could spend that money did and dont want it to lost it's value?

So only those with disposable incomes are worthy enough to own MG's?

An original thompson would still be collectable, but that wouldnt matter anymore because others can get into full auto for cheaper?

If a guns valued is an investment made on a law that inflates the value for no purpose...wouldn't that be a risky investment? It's not like buying a house.

[MDJschool]

If those who were paying 10k each for a few 600 dollar machineguns had instead used that money to take down the unconstitutional machinegun laws, they would have been out the same money, had their machineguns at 600 a piece, and had security in buying them for a good price for the rest of their and their spawn's lives. Instead, they thought best just to pay the 10k for each gun.

[Kramer]

If the 86 ban went away TODAY...Kahr would be selling their freshly-made NFA 1928s to the rest of us for about $1K or likely less.

Granted the prices will drop, but considering that semi-auto tommys are selling in the $1000-1500 range plus $600 for the factory SBR, new production full autos will never go below $1K, probably in the $2000-2500 range.

[dsnover]

Granted the prices will drop, but considering that semi-auto tommys are selling in the $1000-1500 range plus $600 for the factory SBR, new production full autos will never go below $1K, probably in the $2000-2500 range.

The price would likely rise a little, due to pent-up demand, but since LEO can purchase new full autos for about 800 bucks, I don't see it staying up. Particularly since a repeal of the 86 ban would allow DIAS's to be sold again. There's nothing inherently complicated about full auto.

[Yellowfin]

Granted the prices will drop, but considering that semi-auto tommys are selling in the $1000-1500 range plus $600 for the factory SBR, new production full autos will never go below $1K, probably in the $2000-2500 range.

For that same one, no, but for AR15's and AK's with the happy switch it'd be maybe $200 more if that, at very least cost wise. The domestic ammo production demand would be a nice economic stimulus. A REAL economic stimulus would be de-listing suppressors from the NFA, making them vastly more common. Not everyone knows you can buy NFA items and/or is willing to wait for the process and pay the $200 tax plus the inflated cost because of the regulation, and were that not the case people would probably buy them like hot dogs at a baseball game. That's a lot of American made products people would buy that they're not buying now--aren't we desperately in need of that these days? Welding and machining is well paying skilled labor which the US has been direly short of in the last 20-25 years, and 30-40 million gun owners buying $200-10000 products that they don't buy now is a LOT of money we're pissing down the drain by keeping NFA regulation on silencers in place.

[nfafan]

Yes, it is the tax - they didn't create a law at the federal level banning ownership outright, just banning ownership of an unregistered, un-taxed, NFA item (under normal conditions).

And luckily, they never increased the tax to account for inflation.

The registration tax is a way of keeping the gene pool clean; if your state permits NFA, you have to pass thru the local CLEO signoff and background check and be able to afford the NFA tax. After all of which you then get to excersise your 2A right.

As for pre- and post-86; it appears they used similar "sporting reasons" bullshit of 922 to cease the introduction of any newly made MGs into the private ownership pool. But since we still get to spend all we want on existing pre-86 registered NFA - they technically never banned private ownership of registered NFA.

"Frankly, I could care less about the loss of investment monies in a pre 86 auto. Investments are inherently risky, some being more-so than others.

True; the "hits" we would take on our pre-86 NFA is simply paper gains/losses. My pre-86 toys are only worth what someone will buy them for.

OTOH, the big hits are for the jamokes that dropped $16K on a registered recvr M16 sometime over the past 5 or so years - only to see their $16K gun become a $1K gun if the 86 ban were to suddenly end.
No one short of Gates wants to watch $15K of value vaporized in an instant.

Anyway, this thread has gone pointlessly circular.

I and others have cried, prayed, bitched, moaned, donated, waved the Constituition, argued over irrationality - and absolutely nothing is gonna change the way NFA is currently treated in the USA as the govt is (barely) happy with the status quo.

Not unless SCROTUS comes up with some obtuse ruling that a well-funded and purposely motivated - and did I mention WELL FUNDED? - organization can use to bring suit against the Feds to end the NFA of 34.

Meanwhile, be glad you can find states to live in, that allow NFA.

[nfafan]

The price would likely rise a little, due to pent-up demand, but since LEO can purchase new full autos for about 800 bucks, I don't see it staying up. Particularly since a repeal of the 86 ban would allow DIAS's to be sold again. There's nothing inherently complicated about full auto.

True that; post-86 DS guns are worth more as PARTS to keep pre-86 guns running, and are often destroyed for just that reason.

[nfafan]

So...keep the dumb law in place because the people who decided they could spend that money did and dont want it to lost it's value?

I'm not saying for 1000% certainty - but; I'd bet if you asked someone who spent $21K on an MG34 five years ago if they don't wouldn't mind resetting its value down to $3.5K and take the real dollar loss... I'm thinking you won't get an altruistic answer.

So only those with disposable incomes are worthy enough to own MG's?

Well in a word; Yes. Same as those who have the disposable worth can afford to buy a Lambo or Maserati.

An original thompson would still be collectable, but that wouldnt matter anymore because others can get into full auto for cheaper?

Exactly; I'm not paying you the $16K you'd like for your AOC 1928 or $30K for your 1921, not when I can get a Kahr for a $1K.
It's really no different than our own classifieds here, when folks got burnt 8-months ago paying $800.00 for a Yugo AK or $2K for a LE6920 - and now can't sell them for anywhere near what they paid for them.
The bottom dropped out of their market values.

If a guns valued is an investment made on a law that inflates the value for no purpose...wouldn't that be a risky investment? It's not like buying a house.

Risky investment? No freakin shit: Imagine for a minute how everyone would take the hit if the govt completely banned all further F4 xfers of registered NFA? NFA toys would be valueless since you can't sell them.

Admittedly that is the worst-case scenario, but right now - in today's economy - a lot of well-stocked dealers are stuck with very hard to sell merchandise. Much like foreclosure properties; it's a buyers market.

[nfafan]

<snip>

The domestic production would be a nice economic stimulus.

<snip>

Bingo. Well maybe.

Forgetting for a moment of getting any possible help from The Supremes, gunowners have to present a rational argument to lift the 86 ban (and at least many portions of the GCA 68 and original NFA of 34).

One strong argument is the economic one if the 86 ban ends;

One example is the "SWD-like" company is going to pop-up and hire folks, start making MACs again and pay taxes. New MACs mean more F4 taxes to the treasury. Plus all the stuff in between - from raw steel, to tooling and machinery, to utility bills, to rent, to transportation, to the CL3 dealer licenses, and their staff, and on and on.

Kahr adds staff and starts shipping new 1928's, hopefully ones that work. And if not? 'Smiths and companies pop-up to make them work like they did in the past. People work and pay taxes.

DPMS starts to sell Panthers with real claws, MKArms comes back, and CL2 shops everywhere start welding STEN kits together again along with side-plate Maxims and bent-metal DIAS's.

In the absence of the courts, it's gonna take a strong compelling reason to get the gov't to reverse the bans - and the economy can be the main one.

But selling THAT idea to the many non-NFA states and to the anti-2A contingents in power, that's the real challenge.

[Kramer]

The domestic ammo production demand would be a nice economic stimulus.


A REAL economic stimulus would be de-listing suppressors from the NFA, making them vastly more common. Not everyone knows you can buy NFA items and/or is willing to wait for the process and pay the $200 tax plus the inflated cost because of the regulation, and were that not the case people would probably buy them like hot dogs at a baseball game.


That's a lot of American made products people would buy that they're not buying now--aren't we desperately in need of that these days? Welding and machining is well paying skilled labor which the US has been direly short of in the last 20-25 years, and 30-40 million gun owners buying $200-10000 products that they don't buy now is a LOT of money we're pissing down the drain by keeping NFA regulation on silencers in place.

The domestic ammo production demand would be a nice economic stimulus. This will only work if they can actually produce enough ammo for the demand...and in the past few years they have been behind the ball in production.

A REAL economic stimulus would be de-listing suppressors from the NFA, making them vastly more common. With the gov't making $200 each on the transfer tax that won't happen. You would have a better chance of repealing the 86 MG ban.

That's a lot of American made products people would buy that they're not buying now--aren't we desperately in need of that these days? Yes we do need more, but keep in mind that the supressor manufacture can not keep up with the demand for supressors now, if they were to drop the tax you would be waiting a year or two or more for your can. Plus with the shortage of skilled welders and machinists it would make the problem even worse.