Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: [PAFOA Blog] Pennsylvania seeks to standardize firearm permit process

    I'm not sure what to think of this either, especially when the suggested new process (emphasis by me):

    The goal of the License to Carry (LTC) program is to provide a statewide system to provide a standardized method of completing the application, submitting the information to PSP, obtaining confirmation of a successful transaction with PSP, and issuing the identification card for those individuals seeking a license to carry a firearm.
    I'm all for standardization, but I'd rather apply to a Sheriff that I can vote out in the next election if he doesn't do his job, rather than the PSP, an entity over which regular citizens have no control.

    UPDATED: Wow, holy necropost!!!
    Last edited by ChamberedRound; August 11th, 2010 at 11:53 AM.
    "Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
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  2. #12
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    Default Re: [PAFOA Blog] Pennsylvania seeks to standardize firearm permit process

    Still deserves discussion though, PA should be brought out of the Jim Crow era when it comes to firearms... well, most of the US should be too, we only have 3 states that honor our liberties.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: [PAFOA Blog] Pennsylvania seeks to standardize firearm permit process

    Quote Originally Posted by ChamberedRound View Post
    I'm not sure what to think of this either, especially when the suggested new process (emphasis by me):



    I'm all for standardization, but I'd rather apply to a Sheriff that I can vote out in the next election if he doesn't do his job, rather than the PSP, an entity over which regular citizens have no control.

    UPDATED: Wow, holy necropost!!!
    I'll admit I haven't read through the entire proposal, but my take on just the above is that is would still go through the Sheriff. They submit a PICS request to the PSP, and the PSP give them an answer (just like is done now). I'm not sure I understand exactly what is "changing". The UFA already lays out a "standard" process. The problem is that it's not followed, and there's no penalty for such actions.

    I predict the same problems will exist under the "new" system, if it's put into place.
    Attention NRA Life and voting members - LPRGCFRANK running for NRA board of directors

  4. #14
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    Default Re: [PAFOA Blog] Pennsylvania seeks to standardize firearm permit process

    This giving of more power to the PSP over the issuance of LTCF permits is not a new proposal for just this session.

    It’s all part of the bigger picture objectives with long term goal is to bring everything under the PSP leadership CNC along with LOTS cash to run the programs.

    Some of the 67 sheriff’s may abuse the charter and reputation clause, overcharge etc most DON'T. Still Its just one person that can be held accountable for there officer actions.Theoretically they can be at least voted out of office in the next election cycle.

    What to do you with a un accountable appointed bureaucrat doing the job from a central & control location, who don’t care what you think?

    Who are you going to call to complain to? sure can't vote them out they are protected by multiple shields layers of bureaucracy.

    Especially a centralized ome like the PSP, with almost unlimited resource to fight any lawsuit to challenge their powers as the ACSL & Others have done in the past when taking them to courts trying to make them be accountable with violations of the laws in the UFA.

    PSP leadership is all politics, all the time, directly under the governor’s command even though technically the legislators hold the purse string over them. In reality the PSP commissioner are much like the local appointed police chief that only holds their jobs because of being the mayor’s lap dog and doing whatever the mayor says or they lose their jobs very quickly.

    As example of WHY the PSP should not have any more authority over the Citizens firearms rights
    The recent claimed legislative enhancement of made up regulatory power by the PSP leadership with such things as reclassifying AR-15 and other firearm with the Record Of Sale forms that could be made into a pistol should give you all the fear of giving more powers to the PSP abuse your firearm rights. Look at all the BS they tried pulling, including in my opinion criminal acts and they were not held accountable for their actions or all the tax payers money they wasted for a illegal political objective without any stator authority. How about the upgrade shut down with the PICS system a few years back.

    AR-15 OWNERS – take note of immanent PSP regulations changes
    http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/650...s-changes.html
    Scheduled Instant Check Outage 9/2 - 9/6
    http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/851...9-2-9-6-a.html


    The PSP has spent untold millions of tax payers money to keep, collect and maintain a database (non database) of all firearm owners over the many decades some say far back into the early 1900’s.

    Till we find a way to take away the PSP money source to keep this illegal gun registry nothing is going to change.

    Like getting rid of the extra expensive added layer cost of the Pa Instant Check System (PICS) the same service the NICS will do for free NOTHING is going to change. This PSP cost to keep PICS cost about 6 million a year and they can’t demonstrate a cost to benefit analyze or even crimes that only could be solved with the records kept. PA is broke we are in the red, the state budget is underfunded now we can't afford PICS

    You would be surprised at all the political patronage nepotism jobs that are doing this task of keepers of (the incomplete) (non) database of gun owners. We can only guess at what extremely over paid rate they cost us get to accomplish this goal.

    What is REALLY need is public hearings to hold the PSP accountable for how the PICS operates, about past abuses, is keeping PICS really in the best interest of the commonwealth & Citizens to keep PICS and or just save the money and go to NICS instead. (The hearing is in the works stay tuned)

    This subjects has been discussed with great detail at numerous FOAC meetings over the years on trying to hold the PSP leadership accountable for its actions.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: [PAFOA Blog] Pennsylvania seeks to standardize firearm permit process

    Quote Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
    The option stands that you can get a non-resident Florida permit, which you need nothing more than a hunter safety course to apply for
    But, the FL non-resident permit has reciprocity with fewer states then the regular PA LTCF, so you are still losing out?

  6. #16
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    Smile Re: [PAFOA Blog] Pennsylvania seeks to standardize firearm permit process

    If you have to have a permit, which I think the Constitution already gives me the right, then let there be NATIONAL RECIPROCITY...

  7. #17
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    Default Re: [PAFOA Blog] Pennsylvania seeks to standardize firearm permit process

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradigm View Post
    Anytime a bureaucrat tries to "standardize" or "streamline" a process, we should all be very afraid.
    I actually don't like the idea of taking VT idea for concealed carry, for the simple reason being that they don't issue permits. If all states had VT's law, it would be ok. But, if PA stops issuing permits and allows concealed carry without one.... what happens to my reciprocity if I have to go out of state?







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  8. #18
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    Default Re: [PAFOA Blog] Pennsylvania seeks to standardize firearm permit process

    Quote Originally Posted by nikole95.7 View Post
    I actually don't like the idea of taking VT idea for concealed carry, for the simple reason being that they don't issue permits. If all states had VT's law, it would be ok. But, if PA stops issuing permits and allows concealed carry without one.... what happens to my reciprocity if I have to go out of state?







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    Ideally you may still have the option to obtain a PA LTCF as people in AZ have the ability to obtain an AZ one. Thanks for bringing that up.

  9. #19
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    Smile Re: [PAFOA Blog] Pennsylvania seeks to standardize firearm permit process

    I understand what you're say about reciprocity with other states...
    But this is a national issue not a state one. The U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights already gives me the right to carry, so why does anyone need a state permit? However, I know that the gutless bureaucrats in Washington wont stand up to protect this right. Therefore I can only hope for national reciprocity which does get the states involved. This was voted on last year and I believe it only failed to pass by a very few votes...maybe next time. In the mean time keep writing your representatives and let them know your feelings...maybe someday someone there will get the message.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: [PAFOA Blog] Pennsylvania seeks to standardize firearm permit process

    Hope to clear up a few ideas. I'm in Mich we passed a Castle Doc Bill..few years back. It prevents the criminal and their family from suing you and yours for any and ALL harm or injury done to same, by a lawful person defending his-her person or property. Great Idea, bout time politicians !!!

    Then, Mich passed a "shall issue, concealed carry permit". Which means that the state Must show just cause before they can deny your application. Another long overdue law.

    What is nice with the CCW or CPL is NOW you do not have to be concerned about a pistol carried in the vehicle. No rules, carry it in the door, on you, in glove box, or on the seat covered. So much more conveniate to transport as well as carry !!

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