Yet another, a shotgun in my face!

[Finster]

Ok. this actually happened, it is a true story, I'm not talented enough to make this shit up and I will try to be as detailed as possible. I'll tell you what I did at the end of the story and it must have been the correct decision, I'm here writing this.

A long time ago, say 1990 or so I went up to Kinzua for the first time to go camping. (I was not a novice, I had been camping since I was knee high) However, it was my first time at Kinzua. My cousin and I had camped in a place off of what was then called Cornplanter Rd. It is named something different now. Anyway, about the third night we were out fishing late. We got back to camp around 11pm or so and started a fire, having a few beers and just general BS. At 2am a car came down the gravel road turned around and parked. when this guy opened the door I saw him with a shotgun via the dome light. He is maybe 30 feet away it's pitch dark except for the campfire, I don't know the area, and we are miles from help and miles into the forrest, completely alone. I did not carry at the time and neither did my cousin. There is no where to go! He came staggering into our campsite, drunk as a monkey, you almost couldn't understand him. he was waving this shotgun around and leveled at both of us a few times all the while telling us not to be afraid of the shotgun..... WTF........ He starts telling us how he owns these woods (bullshit we are in a national forrest no question about that at all even confirmed it with maps the next day) and how he likes campers and lets people camp here. Then he starts accusing us of throwing firecrackers in his yard, scaring his dogs, peeping in his windows and all kind of other shit between slurs. I don't even know where this joker lives!!! He is so drunk that he is almost falling down. In fact he may have a few times. I'm a little fuzzy on that. He was so drunk that he was having violent mood swings. Happy one second, pissed off the next. All the while, I'm remaining very calm, talking in a very kind voice and just agreeing with whatever just to calm him down. He is five feet away and I was 20 years younger and much more spry at the time. I start thinking......... I could grab this shotgun away from this joker disarming him before he ever knew what happened.......... then I thought.......... I have a few beers in me also, this could go bad quick if I'm not as fast as I think. He was getting more outraged by the second so I figured the best thing to do was pack up and go. This confrontation lasted about a half hour. So at 2:30 am me and my cousin broke camp at gunpoint and left this drunk ass in the woods. So this question remains in my mind to this day. If I had been armed, would I have been justified in firing? I didn't know what his intentions were or if we were going to "dissappear". And he did level the shotgun at us several times. Looking back on that evening, if I had been armed at the time, I would have drawn and or shot. I'm kind of glad that I was not armed that time since it probably would have ended up much worse someone that night would have been shot or killed. Needless to say, I never go to Kinzua camping without at least a sidearm and usuall my 30-30 in the tent also. So, I would like to hear it, what would you have done????? By the way, we did call the state troopers but it took over an hour to find a fricken telephone.

[God's Country]

Holy fuckn' shit...was that you
Sorry


You didn't hear banjo music and pig a squeeling did you?
Otherwise I'm in the wrong thread.


Well a woman got pulled away by gunpoint and raped (allegedly) not far from there a couple weeks ago, so I think you know my answer.

[ungawa]

I certainly would have left, but I would have skipped the packing up.

[Finster]

Holy fuckn' shit...was that you
Sorry


You didn't hear banjo music and pig a squeeling did you?
Otherwise I'm in the wrong thread.


Well a woman got pulled away by gunpoint and raped (allegedly) not far from there a couple weeks ago, so I think you know my answer.

No kidding? where??? I know the area very well now. I've been camping in kinzua 20 years or so now. I always camp at jakes rocks, back on the dirt road. In fact, we were up there in late July and I proposed to my girlfriend there. She said yes by the way.

[Finster]

To clarify:
I'm talking about what would you do if you were armed... or what the heck what would you do armed vs. unarmed if you feel like typing.

[God's Country]

No kidding? where??? I know the area very well now. I've been camping in kinzua 20 years or so now. I always camp at jakes rocks, back on the dirt road. In fact, we were up there in late July and I proposed to my girlfriend there. She said yes by the way.

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/107...ound-here.html

[svltrack]

Well for starters I would have been damn sure I was not trespassing BEFORE I setup camp. Second is when you see him getting out of the truck and know he has a shotgun.. you need to prepare yourself and damn quick.

Drunk people are impossible to predict.. at least for me I could not answer the question of when to shoot without being there to see his actions. I suppose as a general rule if after I told him multiple times to leave me alone and he was still waving around a loaded shotgun I would take his ass down end of story.

I would rather have to deal with the possible legal matters than having my family setup a funeral.

[zackattack784]

Personally if I had a shotgun pointed at my face and no other means of safely getting away I'm gonna have to say draw and shoot. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6, that is assuming the police even know who did the shooting.

[jcabin]

If someone enters my campsite in the middle of the night, in a state forest, wasted, leveling a shotgun at me, and claiming it was his land when I had already confirmed it was state land before considering even camping there, then accusing me of doing things I didn't do, aggitated, aggressive, and continually leveling his shotgun at me, I would be in fear for my life.

That's probably one of those 5th amendment type deals too.

[Finster]

Well for starters I would have been damn sure I was not trespassing BEFORE I setup camp. Second is when you see him getting out of the truck and know he has a shotgun.. you need to prepare yourself and damn quick.

We were sure about it being National forest. Perhaps I didn't make that point clear enough. The only reason I confirmed it the next day was because of self doubt. However, I was correct the first time. We were in the national forrest by miles. If you read the story a little more carefully, you may understand that he was maybe 30 feet away when he exited the car. There is very little preparing to do in this instance when you are unarmed with nowhere to go. I mean no disrespect to you or your comments. However, I think you should think your comments through a little more and have a little less of a judgemental attitude.