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Thread: Lee-Enfield!

  1. #1
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    Default Lee-Enfield!

    Anyone have experience with Lee-Enfield Rifles?
    Good rifle or not?
    Where do I get parts?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Lee-Enfield!

    Excellent rifles that can usually be had on the cheap. I have a WWII-era No.4 MkI that can shoot way better than I can. Easily one of my favorite surplus guns.

    Ammo is a different story though. Surplus is next to impossible to find and commercial ammo prices are creeping up, plus not every local shop will have it. Online stores are a better bet.

    For info, check out http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/main.htm. Most sites that deal in surplus firearms will have Enfield sections though. Try Gunboards and CMP forums for example.

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    Default Re: Lee-Enfield!

    Some say that the Lee Enfield is the finest bolt action battle rifle ever made. I agree with that assessment. Though I'm down to just one Savage built No. 4 mk 1/3, that Lee Enfield is among the front line Teotwawki / SHTF rifles here at forward firebase.

    The Lee Enfield rifle is one of the few firearms that I'd stake my life on. Excellent micrometer type sights with the fast, fool-proof bolt action. No gas-system to get fouled and cause a jamming failure. And no clumsy detachable tin box magazine to manage and fumble around. The Lee Enfield No 4 rifle is very well balance, simple and reliable.

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    Exclamation Re: Lee-Enfield!

    Id advise against a lee enfield unless you want to get into hand-loading....Currently the only surplus available is pakistani cap manufactured in the 50s(and even that's getting scarce ).....Now a 308 enfeild might be a better by.....


    so yeah Unless your into hand-loading or have a disposable income for commercial ammo id advise against a lee enfield
    Gott mit uns

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    Default Re: Lee-Enfield!

    I've had Lee Enfields most of my shooting days. They are nice rifles. Smooth actions. Very good accuracy. Excellent big game caliber. I don't ever see myself being without a one.

    They are not without their issues, however. They were manufactured with large chambers so they could function dirty. This causes the cases to expand a great deal which can lead to short case life. The bolt is rear locking, which allows it to be a bit spongy (for lack of a better term). Again, hard on cases. Head spacing can be an issue. However, the bolt heads are removable and replacing with a longer can correct an headspace issue. But, some bolt heads are becoming scarce.

    As was mentioned, handloading is the way to go. I've been loading for the .303 for over 30 yrs. I've had no issues at all and have found that each of my .303's are very accurate. I have one that I sporterized years ago. I have a handload using 7.62x39 123 gr. bullets. It is zeroed for 200 yards and does a nice job on ground hogs.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Lee-Enfield!

    Wow I didn't know ammo for these was getting scarce, haven't bought ammo for my Faz No4 mkII in a while. I have some Sellier & Bellot ammo that I thought was current production, did they stop making it, they might as well it doesn't seem to be too accurate. I love these rifles, they used to be some of the best buys out there, now I think the K31s are if you can still find them for under $200.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Lee-Enfield!

    Commercial ammo can be found without much issue, although it is getting rather pricey. It's the inexpensive military rounds that are become a bit scarce. The selection is just not as plentiful as it was a few years ago.

    Over the past year, I've seen more Federal Power Shok (blue box) in .303 than I've ever seen. Remington Core Locts are pretty much available at most shops.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Lee-Enfield!

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinBrody View Post
    they used to be some of the best buys out there, now I think the K31s are if you can still find them for under $200.
    Noooooo! I've been telling myself I don't need a K31 and so far will power is winning over impulse. Please don't say anything good about them!

    By the way, I personally think Prvi Partisan makes the best .303 for the range even though it's one of the cheaper rounds out there.

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    Default Re: Lee-Enfield!

    I have owned about a half dozen over the years, and I love them. I have an Indian 2A1 in .308, and just put a scope mount on it - range time Saturday, I hope.

    I always handloaded for my .303 Enfields, using a cheap Lee Loader that neck sized only, saving extra stretching of the brass. Got a lot more use out of the cases that way. They are VERY accurate with slightly lighter bullets. I have never had one that shot poorly, even the one with a ringed and spotted bore.

    Privi Partizan ammo is good quality, and the brass is find for reloading. they are very good all around rifles still inexpensive.
    You will probably never need parts, but www.gunpartscorp.com
    still has some if you should.

    mark
    Another armed Liberal veteran.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Lee-Enfield!

    The Lee Enfield is certainly one of the most remarkable bolt-action rifles ever designed, and has carved out a very respectable place for itself in the annals of firearms history. In one form or another it served the British Empire for 65-70 years, and then went on to serve other countries as surplus for a few more decades. India built new Enfields in .303 as late as 1988. Countless more Enfields have been copied and cloned by the Pakistani cottage arms industry.

    The Lee Enfield has its roots in the action designed by Scots-born American citizen James Paris Lee. The action is remarkable in that the bolt is captured and held stable over the length of its travel by a slot in the bolt head and a groove in the right side of the receiver below the bolt raceway. This makes for virtually ZERO bolt wobble and potential for binding as the bolt is manipulated. Contrast that with the broomstick-in-a-bathtub feel of a Mauser bolt when it is fully rearward. Mind you, I love my Mausers, but but the Enfield is superior to the Mauser when it comes to bolt stability during manipulation.

    This stability is a major part of what made the Enfield's reputation -- the action is FAST. The Enfield may or may not be the best bolt action rifle, but it is considered by most experts to be definitely the fastest bolt action rifle ever made. The Enfield is remarkable easy to keep on the shoulder and manipulate the bolt literally as fast as you can. A squad of British Empire riflemen armed with Lee-Enfields was often mistaken for a MUCH larger force, and in some cases during WW1 and WW2 was mistaken for a machine gun section, such was the sound of the volume of fire laid down by eight to 12 Tommies, and the number of bullet impacts in Bad Guy Land.

    The other feature contributing to the Enfield's reputation and success is the magazine capacity, and charger clip loading feature. The Enfield mag holds 10 rounds, and can be charged with two five-rd clips. Most other contemporary bolt-action rifles held five cartridges; and the French Lebel, three. The British need only stop to reload half as often, and their reload time was shorter than the time it took to reload a Mauser or Springfield twice.

    There are a few dozen variants of the Lee and Lee-Enfield, but two basic models are the most prolific: The No1 Mk III*, also known as the Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee Enfield, or SMLE ("smelly") for short. The "short" pertains to the Rifle, as in "short rifle." "Magazine" pertains to its feed system, as opposed to a single-shot like its predecessor, the Martini. "Lee Enfield" is of course the basic design, and the "Enfield" part signifies Enfield-style rifling. The rifle was also made at the Royal Small Arms Factory in Enfield Lock, England, but it was also made at RASF Fazakerly, RSAF Maltby, and others.



    The SMLE is characterized by being stocked to the so-called nose cap, with the handguard of matching length. The barrel muzzle is flush with the nose cap, and the front sight is protected by two large "ears" that are part of the nose cap itself. There is a bridge across the rear of the receiver that accomodates a charger clip, and the magazine protrudes below the bottom of the stock. The magazines are removable, but they were not intended to be disposable. Full magazines were NOT provided, as the weapon was to be reloaded with 5-rd charger clips.

    The other most prolific Enfeld model is the No4 Mk1, Mk1*, and MkII. The No4 came after the No1 MkIII* SMLE, and can be considered a "product improved" version. Similarly, the No4 is to the M1903A3 Springfield as the No1 MkIII is to the M1903 Springfield. The No4 is characterized by the end of the barrel projecting in front of the front band and the front sight protecting ears by about 1.5" or so. The receiver is slightly different, and the charger bridge was made more integral with the No4 receiver instead of being added on to the SMLE.



    Both types have the captured bolt head feature mentioned earlier, but the latching of the bolt head into its capture groove is executed differently in the various models. All Lee Enfields have removable bolt heads, and there were boltheads of different lengths to account for variation in headspace. The boltheads for the No1 MkIII* SMLE will NOT interchange with those for the No4.

    There were differences in the No4 throughout its production life. The first model was the No4 Mk1, and it gave way early in WW2 to the Mk1*, which had some slight changes in design that made for more rapid and less costly production. The No4 Mk1* was born in North America, made by the Stevens division of Savage Arms (Many believe the "boxed S" on the side of the US-built No4s stands for Savage, but the No4s were actually built in the Stevens plant). The so-called "Savage Enfields" are marked "US Property" on the top left side of the receiver just beneath the bolt raceway opening. This marking was required by US law in order for the US-made No4 rifles to be given to Britain under the terms of the Lend-Lease Act.

    No4 Mk1* rifles were also built in Canada at the Canadian Arsenals Long Branch facility outside Toronto, and parts were routinely shared between Long Branch and the Stevens/Savage plant. The Long Branch rifles have a reputation for nice fit and finish. Speaking of finish, it was a dark charcoal-gray phosphate finish.

    After WW2, the No4 rifle was again redesigned, and designated the No4 MkII. Outwardly the MkII is indistinguishable from the Mk1 and Mk1*, but the trigger and fire control bits are mounted to the front wall of the buttstock socket. In previous No4 Marks, the trigger was integral with the trigger guard, as was with the earlier No1 MkIII* SMLE.

    The No4 MkII was stocked in beech, and many of them were finished in a light yellowish-gold hue, with the metal receiving a black "stoving," the term given to a baking enamel. These rifles were prevalent in the late 80s and early 90s surplus rifle market in the US, usually seen wrapped up in greased kraft paper. They are often erroneously referred to as "Irish Contract" rifles, and although a small part of the No4 MkII production was intended for Northern Ireland, the rifles were never delivered and remained in storage. True "Irish Contract" MkII rifles are in a particular serial number rage with a "PF" prefix, but not all "PF" rifles are "Irish Contract."



    The bulk of No4 MkII production went to Britain and a host of nations friendly to Britain. The British military changed their firearms designation in 1954-55 and the prefix on the 1955 MkII rifles became UF followed by "55", the year of manufacture. That was coincidentally the last year of production for the Enfield in Britain, with the L1A1 "SLR" (FN-FAL) being adopted for first-line service as the primary battle rifle for the British Army and Royal Marines. A collector hint: "UF55" MkIIs were only made one year.

    Since there are no current quantities of Enfields available from importers and distributors, any Enfields for sale are on the secondary market. Consequently with low availability and lingering "Obama Stimulus" effect, prices for Enfields start around $200, +/- $25, and go up from there. Australian "Lithgow" SMLEs command a following and a premium, and so do Stevens-Savage "US Property" and Long Branch No4s. The No4 MkIIs with the blond stocks (so-called Irish Contract) were all essentially new and unused when first imported, and those are priced well past $400, and some aggressive dealers are offering them for $600 or more. The quality is definitely there, but it's hard to plunk down that many Benjamins when the MkIIs were $350-$400 only a few short years ago.

    Surplus ammo used to be plentiful, and if you were like me and fortunate to snatch up the SA surplus 303 from AIM about 10 yrs ago, you're doing fine for ammo. The POF stuff made in Pakistan has a loyal following, but much of it is "click-bang." Friends don't let friend shoot Paki 303. The best option for 303 Brit ammo is Prvi Partizan commercial available from several online distributors and at guns shows. It can still be had in PA and eastern OH shows for around $15-$17 a box of 20. Buy 200-300 rounds and a set of dies and you are GTG for loading the Enfield rifle, especially if you have only one. Just set the resizing die such that the case JUST enters the chamber with the bolt closed with little effort, or simply neck size only. It is not uncommon to get 6-8 loadings before a length trim is necessary, and I've gotten as many as 20 loadings on some cases that are still going and going. The 303 is a fun gun for cast bullets, too. A cast 170 or 180 gr bullet under 11 gr of Unique is a fun plinker round that is remarkably accurate at 100 yds, and will yield dozens of inexpensive loadings per case.

    Hope this helps,

    Noah
    Last edited by Noah_Zark; January 22nd, 2010 at 10:45 PM.

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