Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Legal Question reagrding fees

    Ok, if we got any lawyers in here, I'd really like to know the answer to this.

    According to the PA Uniform Firearms Act, the fee for getting an LTCF is $25. It also says that anyone who charges more is guilty of a summary offense:

    18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses
    (h) Fee.--
    (1) In addition to fees described in paragraphs (2)(ii) and (3), the fee for a license to carry a firearm is $19. This includes all of the following:
    (2)
    (ii) An additional temporary fee of $5 shall be remitted by the sheriff to the Firearms License to Carry Modernization Account, which is hereby established as a special restricted receipt account within the General Fund of the State Treasury. Moneys and investment income in the account shall be awarded as grants to sheriffs to implement the system, including grants to reimburse sheriffs for expenses incurred prior to the effective date of this paragraph.
    (3) An additional fee of $1 shall be paid by the applicant for a license to carry a firearm and shall be remitted by the sheriff to the Firearms License Validation System Account, which is hereby established as a special restricted receipt account within the General Fund of the State Treasury. The account shall be used for purposes under subsection (l). Moneys credited to the account and any investment income accrued are hereby appropriated on a continuing basis to the Pennsylvania State Police.
    (7) A person who sells or attempts to sell a license to carry a firearm for a fee in excess of the amounts fixed under this subsection commits a summary offense.


    If that's the case, how is the Lehigh County Sheriff legally allowed to charge $38 instead of $25? How is Bucks County allowed to charge $46?

    Am I reading the law incorrectly? If I'm reading it correctly, then how in the holy heck is this tolerated?!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Legal Question reagrding fees

    Here's an excerpt from the Chester County sheriff:

    License fee is $25.00, this includes $19.00 for the paper license, $5.00 for the state modernization account, & $1.00 for the firearms licesnse validation system account. We also offer a license on a PVC card. It is the size of you drivers license & is an additional $21.00, for a total of $46.00.
    I think that those that charge more than the $25 justify it as a surcharge for the 'upgraded' license form. As long as this is made optional it would comport with the law.

    Incidentally, I would expect that the state fees will necessarily increase after 1/10/11. After that date all newly issued licenses (original and renewals) must have a photo.

    18 Pa CSA 6109(e)(4) The sheriff shall require a photograph of the licensee on the license. The photograph shall be in a form compatible with the Commonwealth Photo Imaging Network.
    IANAL

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Legal Question reagrding fees

    Quote Originally Posted by tl_3237 View Post

    Incidentally, I would expect that the state fees will necessarily increase after 1/10/11. After that date all newly issued licenses (original and renewals) must have a photo.
    I don't know, but I wonder if this will be the same type digital photo
    that Penndot is collecting for biometric purposes...and database
    sharing...

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Legal Question reagrding fees

    it should be noted that this discussion has already been started here:
    http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/8634...-licenses.html
    Let us never forget the sacrifice of those who have fought for us all.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Legal Question reagrding fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian View Post
    Ok, if we got any lawyers in here, I'd really like to know the answer to this.

    According to the PA Uniform Firearms Act, the fee for getting an LTCF is $25. It also says that anyone who charges more is guilty of a summary offense:

    18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses
    (h) Fee.--
    (1) In addition to fees described in paragraphs (2)(ii) and (3), the fee for a license to carry a firearm is $19. This includes all of the following:
    (2)
    (ii) An additional temporary fee of $5 shall be remitted by the sheriff to the Firearms License to Carry Modernization Account, which is hereby established as a special restricted receipt account within the General Fund of the State Treasury. Moneys and investment income in the account shall be awarded as grants to sheriffs to implement the system, including grants to reimburse sheriffs for expenses incurred prior to the effective date of this paragraph.
    (3) An additional fee of $1 shall be paid by the applicant for a license to carry a firearm and shall be remitted by the sheriff to the Firearms License Validation System Account, which is hereby established as a special restricted receipt account within the General Fund of the State Treasury. The account shall be used for purposes under subsection (l). Moneys credited to the account and any investment income accrued are hereby appropriated on a continuing basis to the Pennsylvania State Police.
    (7) A person who sells or attempts to sell a license to carry a firearm for a fee in excess of the amounts fixed under this subsection commits a summary offense.


    If that's the case, how is the Lehigh County Sheriff legally allowed to charge $38 instead of $25? How is Bucks County allowed to charge $46?

    Am I reading the law incorrectly? If I'm reading it correctly, then how in the holy heck is this tolerated?!
    Who is going to hold them accountable?

    Allegheny Co sheriff dept a few back was breaking the law about not sending out renewal notices 60 days prior to expiration, even collected the 1.50 ear marked in the statue for this specfic purpose. We figured there was about $150,000 than was miss appropriated by the sheriff dept.

    No one was held accountable, they only started to obey the law when the lawsuit was started. No one got a refund either for fees collect for services not rendered.

    So again what are you going to do to hold them accountable?


    There are many other things that is done with sheriff's and LTCF permits making up their own rules or interpreting them because they can.

    note: Many of the 67 county sheriff's depts do the right things and try to obey the laws, sometimes they just need to be reminded in writting they are not. After they are informed in writing they don't have an excuse anymore.


    Did you ever write a letter to the sheriff of those counties and ask them your question?
    Many will be real interested in reading their reply as to WHY they can charge more for the service.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Legal Question reagrding fees

    Quote Originally Posted by tl_3237 View Post
    Here's an excerpt from the Chester County sheriff:



    I think that those that charge more than the $25 justify it as a surcharge for the 'upgraded' license form. As long as this is made optional it would comport with the law.
    Lehigh doesn't even offer the paper one AFAIK.

    Incidentally, I would expect that the state fees will necessarily increase after 1/10/11. After that date all newly issued licenses (original and renewals) must have a photo.
    Drivers license doesn't charge for the photo, why should the sheriff be permitted to? If they charge then they are required to allow you to bring your own, just like you could for a US passport. Otherwise they could charge you a million dollars for the photo and essentially bar everyone from getting an LTCF.

    The clause in the law preventing additional fees is there to prevent Sheriffs from charging fees so high as to prevent anyone from getting an LTCF thereby skirting the "shall issue" clause by virtue of making the license unaffordable. The law makes no distinction between $1 and $1,000,000,000 in this case. It says you can't be charged any more.


    EDIT:
    Did you ever write a letter to the sheriff of those counties and ask them your question?
    Many will be real interested in reading their reply as to WHY they can charge more for the service.
    Honestly I have no desire to stick my head out and make myself a target for harassment by the Sheriff. That's why I contacted my State Rep. about this. Besides, he has more power to get things done than I do.
    Last edited by Nullifidian; January 20th, 2010 at 12:29 PM.

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