Officer from my agency stabbed

**mercop** · January 20th, 2010, 07:25 PM

First Aid before Firearms

**synergy** · January 21st, 2010, 09:04 PM

Sorry to hear the bad news.

It's good to hear that someone with a level head was able to improvise a tourniquet and buy the officer some time.

Once class I took in college was Wilderness First Responder. It's essentially how to be an EMT in the woods, with what you have in your pack. It helps getting you thinking of ways to improve, and still treat the problem.

We often made splints out of Thermarest sleeping pads, trekking poles and sticks, pack stays, etc. We made pressure bandages out of backpack straps, belts, torn shirts, shoelaces, etc.

One thing we worked a lot on was patient assessment. We were taught a variety of acronyms to help guide you through caring for a patient. Once this info was gathered, you could send it out with a runner to help get help to you as you evac (slower with the patient in tow).

One of the most useful acronyms was SAMPLE History. It stands for:
Signs and Symptoms: What is abnormal with the patient.
Allergies: What is the patient allergic to? Foods, meds, latex, etc?
Medications: What are they on? Did they miss it/ change it?
Past Pertinent Info: Have they gone through similar events in the past (previous break, previous heart conditions, etc)
Last in's and outs: When was the last time they ate, pee'd, etc.
Events Leading Up To: What were they doing right before they starting having trouble.

This information guides you to ask follow up questions. EX: So you are taking a blood thinner...why? So you injured your back before, when? Etc.

In trauma situations, some of this might be obvious. He's bleeding from his arm, and there is a bloody knife on the ground....don't really need to ask "E". This is a cookie cutter series of questions to get you thinking and collecting information to provide to higher levels of care (EMS, Paramedics, 911 operator, doctor, ER staff, Team Medic).

There is a lot more to learn...this is just a start, which I hope helps.
Check out SOLO for information about this course, and how to take it:
http://www.soloschools.com/

**joecon** · January 22nd, 2010, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

hope your friend makes a full and quick recovery mercop.

tourniquets are definitely the way to go for extremity bleeding that won't stop with direct pressure...before quick clot/celox. quick clot/celox should only be used as a last resort as it has to all be picked out of the wound at the hospital and makes treating the person more difficult and time consuming.

imho, everyone should carry and know how to use quick clot/celox, but everyone should also carry and know how to use a tourniquet--and go to that first in the case of bleeding from an extremity that cannot be controlled with direct pressure.

In a pinch--use your belt!! I worked at the county jail here in the eighties and after ruining 2 leather belts--I started carring a velcro tourniquet on my belt loop.
I was a medic in the ARMY in the 70's and the knowledge I acquired has come in handy.

**NikeBauer21** · January 22nd, 2010, 09:09 AM

Any updates on Duncan's condition mercop?

**NikeBauer21** · January 22nd, 2010, 09:15 AM

Also, I have a question, for those that may know... With the way the world is today, and the innocent easily becoming the guilty, how much liability lies on you, if you applied a tourniquet to someone in need of assistance: Let's say you are walking down the street, and a guy runs up, stabs a lady in the arm cutting an artery, takes her purse, and darts down an alley. The woman is bleeding profusely and you realize her chances of surviving until medics can get there is slim. So, you use your belt as a tourniquet... But I AM NOT, medically trained...

If she were to die anyway, how much legal trouble do you think I would be in? I've heard stories where citizens try to help others out of wrecked vehicles on fire and such, and the person ends up dead, or paralyzed, and then the family sues you for doing a good deed.

Personally, I would try to help no matter what. It's my obligation as a human being.. if I think I can help knowingly, I will try. But I was just wondering what, if any legal repercussion it could have.

(Sorry to hijack a little)

**mercop** · January 22nd, 2010, 09:41 AM

Synergy, that is good simple stuff...thanks.

The liability of applying a tourniquet. That is way outside the protocol for most first responders. Many states have a Good Samaritan Law that would protect you because you were attempting to to save a life under good faith. The Sgt who did so in this case had been field trained by me, worked SWAT with me, and at one time trained at the same dojo I did. It was at the dojo that he learned about applying a tourniquet. Our Master was a retired SF medic. I can only think of two other people in the agency who would have had the training and balls to make the command decision to apply the tourniquet. Everyone else would have been ringing their hands instead of acting.

Duncan is home and doing well. I hope to speak with him over the weekend and get more information. There are going to be many lessons to learn from this situation. It affords me to be able to investigate an incredible set of circumstances at a location that I am extremely familiar with. I have been on several shots fired and fight calls in the same parking lot.- George

**NikeBauer21** · January 22nd, 2010, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by mercop

Synergy, that is good simple stuff...thanks.

The liability of applying a tourniquet. That is way outside the protocol for most first responders. Many states have a Good Samaritan Law that would protect you because you were attempting to to save a life under good faith. The Sgt who did so in this case had been field trained by me, worked SWAT with me, and at one time trained at the same dojo I did. It was at the dojo that he learned about applying a tourniquet. Our Master was a retired SF medic. I can only think of two other people in the agency who would have had the training and balls to make the command decision to apply the tourniquet. Everyone else would have been ringing their hands instead of acting.

Yea, I knew the GS rule applied with CPR and such, but didn't know in an instance like this. Just in case I ever would have to do it, what to expect afterward. (like I said though, I'll do it regardless if I think it will save a life...)

Duncan is home and doing well. I hope to speak with him over the weekend and get more information. There are going to be many lessons to learn from this situation. It affords me to be able to investigate an incredible set of circumstances at a location that I am extremely familiar with. I have been on several shots fired and fight calls in the same parking lot.- George

That's good to hear!

I will continue to pray for him.