Purchased a handgun out of state

[cruzans]

While you may be able to make the purchase, you cannot legally bring the handgun back with you. It must first go through an FFL in your home state (PA) before you may lawfully possess the handgun.

No issues here. The firearms are already owned by you. You do not need to "transfer" the firearms to yourself. Just bring them along when you move, making sure you are in compliance with federal transport guidelines.

Great info., thank you !

[jahwarrior72]

nevermind, youse guys already answered.

[Smalls]

nevermind, youse guys already answered.

This place is like Whack-a-mole man.

Ya gotta get to it before someone else does!!

[jahwarrior72]

This place is like Whack-a-mole man.

Ya gotta get to it before someone else does!!

as long as them moles have blue helmets....

[Wiley-X]

i travel to my home state of mass. or ct. and while there i legally buy a handgun with my carry permit for that state - i then come home. you are saying i have to go to an ffl when i get back to pa ?

Most folks and even most FFLs don't realize that ATF recognizes situations in which you can be considered a resident of multiple states. One is the military. Another is when folks have a part-time residence in another state.

It needs to be a bona fide residence, not just you visiting Uncle Willie. However, if you do have a beach house, mountain cabin or whatever, ATF considers you a resident of that state while you are residing there. The same is true for college students while they are out of state attending college.

So if you can claim part time residency in Mass or Ct and they'll let you buy a gun, you can just tote that back to Pennsylvania in the trunk of your car.

I will end this with "I'm not a lawyer and the rules may have changed."

[Daedalus]

Wouldn't you need to present a local driver's license from MA or CT (using your example)?

[tl_3237]

Wiley-X is correct with respect to having potentially multiple ‘States of residence". As defined and further amplified in 27 CFR 478.11

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual’s State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located.
… The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Further, as WX states, most FFLs either don’t know or want to chance selling to a person whose DL or official address is out-of-state. Taking the example of a PA resident with a second home in CT, while staying in his CT home he is considered a CT resident for 18 USC Chap 44 purposes. Once he finds a cooperative CT FFL agreeing to his CT residence, he could present any government issued photo ID that show names, address, and DOB. That ID address doesn't necessarily have to be in the state of purchase.

As to whether the gun can be directly (non-FFL) transported back to Pa there is arguably an issue with 18 USC 922(a)(3) which prohibits, outside of some exceptions (eg inheritance, moving), transport into your state of residence of firearm acquisitions outside of your state. The firearm purchased in CT could be kept at the CT residence. It could be transported to Pa if ‘moving’ from the CT property permanently. The question is whether simply traveling between the PA and CT residences is considered a qualified ‘change of residence’ which normally is contemplated as a permanent move and not trans-residence commuting.

A secondary question would be - at what point in the trip does your 'residency' change?

Certainly such a situation would make a terrific subject for judicial review and even for the 'arm-chair' lawyers here (hint).

All of the above does not take into consideration possible application and controlling state laws, I’m only looking at the Federal level.

Rep button broke for WX (owe you one) for bringing this to light and giving me a headache

[Wiley-X]

The question is whether simply traveling between the PA and CT residences is considered a qualified ‘change of residence which normally is contemplated as a permanent move and not trans-residence commuting.

I'm not a lawyer but I would argue that since ATF considers you a resident of State 1 whilst living there and a resident of State 2 while living in State 2, going from State 1 to State 2 is indeed a change of residency.

[tl_3237]

I'm not a lawyer but I would argue that since ATF considers you a resident of State 1 whilst living there and a resident of State 2 while living in State 2, going from State 1 to State 2 is indeed a change of residency.

That's the question - whether this would be a compelling argument in a judicial proceeding.

The proscriptions of 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5) were basically to shut down non-licensed interstate firearm traffic - I believe this was the key component of the GCA 68. Statutorily there are only three exceptions: 1. inheritance; 2. longarms bought from out-of-state FFL; 3. firearms acquired prior to effective date of statute.

The exception, AFAIK, for 'change of residence' if for what is commonly referred to as 'relocating' which involves some aura of permanency and transport of personal household goods. Note that, as far as I can tell, it is neither statutory nor regulatory. It is mentioned, without citation of authority, in the ATF "FEDERAL FIREARMS REGULATIONS REFERENCE GUIDE 2005" in the FAQ section:

(B10) May a person who is relocating
out-of-State move firearms with
other household goods?
Yes. A person who lawfully possesses
a firearm may transport or
ship the firearm interstate when
changing his or her State of residence.

If one were a primary resident of a strict gun state then it would be a relatively simple matter to thwart the GCA by having a property in a gun friendly state that they visit on weekends, load up on guns and bring them back to the primary state.

Failing to obtain an unambiguous proscription in the letter of the law one has to ask what was the intent of the GCA 68 and whether trans-residental commuting, as we are discussing, comports with that intent. I have my doubts and that is why I say this is a gray area.

If you would fail to prevail on the 'relocation' quasi-exemption then you have a serious problem. You have to concede that you regain your PA residency, as defined per the 27 CFR definition, somewhere along our hypothetical return CT to PA trip. Once you become a PA resident 18 USC 922(a)(3) prohibits you from tansporting into and receiving in PA a firearm acquired in CT.

These are some of the considerations that gave me a headache and that's why I blamed you because you correctly exposed the well hidden definition of residency.

[eng63]

Ok help me out here, I baught my 9mm here in PA private sale, transfered via FFL...No problem there....Now If move to W Va. I do nothing cause I own it. If we don't have registations in PA, Or W VA. Why do I need to put out money to FFL's if it's not for tracking ownership, Private sale need FFL transfers in Pa, Not in W Va....No FFL required for private sales. But if I buy any handgun in a private sale while living in w. Va. then move back to Pa I'd be braking the law. Something isn't right here. Just my 2 cent of confusion. I did everythimg right to own the guns yet simply buy moving from one state to another would brake the law.

Edit was to currect brain moving faster then fingers...lol