Purchased a handgun out of state

[Smalls]

the other thing is, there is no registration in PA, only a sales database.

True.

I just ment through FFL's and such...

Did it come off that way?

[tl_3237]

unless the person who "bequeathed" the handgun to you was a spouse or parent, it doesn't matter where the gun came from, in-state or out-of-state; the transfer must be done through a FFL dealer.

i'm unsure if the above applies to siblings or grandparents, and if children can give a firearm to a parent.

The Federal exemption for inheritance is given in 18 USC 922(a)(3) above - no FFL required by the Feds.

For Pa its a gray area. There is an exemption to 18 Pa CSA 6115 for inheritance[6115(b)(2)] but the question is whether this exemption also applies to 6111(c). IMO the intent was clearly to allow for inherited firearms without the formal FFL transfer process but, unfortunately, that was ambiguously implemented in the law by not explicitedly granting a 6111 exemption. Would be interested if anyone has case law on the inherited question.

The pre-death relationship of the decedant and the recipient is immaterial. Since the estate is the owner and tranferor, lineage and marital relationships technically do not exist [for the 6111(c) familial exemption]- they expired at death.

[jahwarrior72]

The Federal exemption for inheritance is given in 18 USC 922(a)(3) above - no FFL required by the Feds.

For Pa its a gray area. There is an exemption to 18 Pa CSA 6115 for inheritance[6115(b)(2)] but the question is whether this exemption also applies to 6111(c). IMO the intent was clearly to allow for inherited firearms without the formal FFL transfer process but, unfortunately, that was ambiguously implemented in the law by not explicitedly granting a 6111 exemption. Would be interested if anyone has case law on the inherited question.

The pre-death relationship of the decedant and the recipient is immaterial. Since the estate is the owner and tranferor, lineage and marital relationships technically do not exist [for the 6111(c) familial exemption]- they expired at death.

aha. so, if i were to leave my estate to someone in my will, and my handguns were part of that estate, they could obtain them without having to go through an FFL? would that apply to claiming an estate that was out-of-state? i hope i stated that clearly.

[tl_3237]

aha. so, if i were to leave my estate to someone in my will, and my handguns were part of that estate, they could obtain them without having to go through an FFL? would that apply to claiming an estate that was out-of-state? i hope i stated that clearly.

That is correct with respect to FEDERAL law -- in-state or out-of-state.

However your bequestee would still have to contend with the state laws of his residence.

As I indicated there is a glitch in Pa in the way two separate sections [6111 and 6115] of the UFA are written. The statute against giving/lending firearms has an exemption for bequests but the section for transferring doesn't.

I introduced this conundrum in another thread 5 days ago asking for discourse but the SILENCE HAS BEEN DEAFENING.

Here's something that has been bothering me that I'll put up for comment.

Is a formal (FFL) transfer required for estate (inheritance) transfers? I am/was of the opinion that no FFL transfer is required in reading §6115(b)(2) but then §6111(c) implies otherwise.


18 PA CSA

§6115(b)(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of a firearm under 20 Pa CS. Ch. 21 (relating to inter*state succession) or by bequest if the individual receiving the firearm is not precluded from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105

but

§6111(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

futhermore the definition of 'person' as used in the UFA:

1 Pa.C.S.A. § 1991 Definitions

The following words and phrases, when used in any statute finally enacted on or after September 1, 1937, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, shall have the meanings given to them in this section:

"Person." Includes a corporation, partnership, limited liability company, business trust, other association, government entity (other than the Commonwealth), estate, trust, foundation or natural person.

This is an analogous situation that GL001 alluded to where §6115 contains an exception to itself seemingly allowing an act but §6111 seems to apply an independent proscription to same.

GEEZ - even PRNJ has a directed exemption to inheritance transfers. Is PA more stringent than NJ?

Help me out here ---

All of the above assume that the recipient is not a prohibited person by state or Federal law ie, it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in his State.

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about NFA firearms.

[jahwarrior72]

i was wondering about this. i've had discussions with family members about it; most of us are gun owners. one topic is what would happen to our guns if something happened to one of us: can i bequeath mine to my brother, can i will mine to a cousin who lives in a state like NJ, things like that.

[tl_3237]

i was wondering about this. i've had discussions with family members about it; most of us are gun owners. one topic is what would happen to our guns if something happened to one of us: can i bequeath mine to my brother, can i will mine to a cousin who lives in a state like NJ, things like that.

Your NJ cousin may be the luckiest. As I lamented, NJ has a very specific exemption in 2C:58 for inheritances not requiring the NJFID or pistol permit or FFL.

Could it be that NJ is more liberal than PA in this aspect regarding guns ?

[cruzans]

In the case of a handgun, what you are suggesting is illegal.

interesting, something doesn't sound right. i probably shouldn't have been so quick to answer - i am not 100% but common sense may not be law ? for anyone familiar with the law, can you answer these scenerios :

* i travel to my home state of mass. or ct. and while there i legally buy a handgun with my carry permit for that state - i then come home. you are saying i have to go to an ffl when i get back to pa ?????

* i move to pa from another state where i own several handguns, i now have to go to an ffl and transfer them all ???

neither seems logical or right - my point which i thought was correct was if either of the above occurs, i am fine and don't have to do anything ????
any help would be appreciated

[gnbrotz]

* i travel to my home state of mass. or ct. and while there i legally buy a handgun with my carry permit for that state - i then come home. you are saying i have to go to an ffl when i get back to pa ?????

While you may be able to make the purchase, you cannot legally bring the handgun back with you. It must first go through an FFL in your home state (PA) before you may lawfully possess the handgun.

* i move to pa from another state where i own several handguns, i now have to go to an ffl and transfer them all ???

No issues here. The firearms are already owned by you. You do not need to "transfer" the firearms to yourself. Just bring them along when you move, making sure you are in compliance with federal transport guidelines.

[tl_3237]

interesting, something doesn't sound right. i probably shouldn't have been so quick to answer - i am not 100% but common sense may not be law ? for anyone familiar with the law, can you answer these scenerios :

* i travel to my home state of mass. or ct. and while there i legally buy a handgun with my carry permit for that state - i then come home. you are saying i have to go to an ffl when i get back to pa ?????

* i move to pa from another state where i own several handguns, i now have to go to an ffl and transfer them all ???

neither seems logical or right - my point which i thought was correct was if either of the above occurs, i am fine and don't have to do anything ????
any help would be appreciated

If you reside in Pa and buy a handgun out-of-state you MUST have it delivered to a PA FFL for final tranfer to you. Long arms can be purchased out-of-state and brought into PA provided they were bought at an FFL in any state.

Moving into PA from out-of-state with already owned handguns/long arms require nothing in the way of paperwork or FFL.

PS to gnbrotz: Greg, someday I'll learn to type and get in ahead of you

[cruzans]

no registration and nothing needed with an ffl unless you have to get it shipped to you, then you are suppose to go through an ffl. if you have the gun - bring it home and enjoy

and i should not have given "legal type" advise here, sorry, this was an opinion not fact, and looks like it is wrong - make sure to read the laws, looks like i'm going to have to - lol.