CCW Denial? Really?

[govmule84]

Voluntary delete.

[Searcher67]

It's a long read, I'm sorry.

I applied for my CCW in PHL county in Novemberish. Via Certified Mail yesterday, I was informed I was unable to receive my permit because "Applicant is an individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety" and "Applicant is denied due to good cause".

They didn't contact either of my references. I carry a deposit for work, and one of my references listed as much. They only strikes I have against me are such: I did admit to taking drugs about five years ago when I was in college. Maybe it was stupid, but I didn't want to lie to a Smokey. I have a totally clean criminal record. The other thing I was asked was whether I'd ever drawn my piece. My neighbor's house in college was being robbed, and I drew my piece on the guy doing it. He took off, cops came, they had zero issue with me drawing down. I told them all of this.

There's an appeal board, so I wrote up an appeal and mailed it via Certified Mail yesterday. Text follows...I don't have the time or money to fight this, so I am hoping I have a fair chance with the appeals board. (and yes, I know there are a few typos - I was in a hurry to get to the PO before it closed, as my job is super-restrictive about me getting out during normal business hours.)

Anyone have any opinions? Letter follows:

The board has requested on the appeal form that grounds be cited for an appeal to a decision. My file number through the Police Department of Philadelphia is G09-05214.

This decision was sent via ceritifed mail dated 12/29/09, and was received by me, the applicant, on 1/1/09. Please find a copy enclosed.

My application to carry a firearm was disapproved for the following reasons:
1. Applicant is an individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be liekly to act in a manner dangerous to public safety
2. Applicant is denied due to good cause.

My appeal rests on the fact that simply, this denial IS NOT due to good cause because I AM NOT an individual whose character or reputation was even investigated, much less found to be dangerous to others.

In my original application, I was asked to provide two character references, which I did, from trusted friends. I contacted both of these friends and found, much to my chagrin, that NEITHER of them was contacted by a representative of the Philadelphia Police Department, who is the issuing body for Licenses to Carry Weapons in the city of Philaelphia. How my reputation was assessed without contacting ANY references escapes me, but this points to specious investigation.

In an effort to defend my character and reputation, I offer several examples of my unwavering dedication to firearms safety:

I am a graduate of Tim Oliver's “Learn to Carry” classes, a classroom- and range-based safety class. Please find my diploma enclosed.

I am also a graduate of the Remington Arms Guide to Shooting and Hunting Safety. Please find my diploma for that enclosed as well.

I am a graduate of the New Jersey State Rifle Hunter Education Course, and my Education Number is 090508-203223. I am also a graduate of the New Jersey State Shotgun Hunter Education Course. My Education number is 090508-303123. Please find enclosed a copy of my New Jersey State Hunter/Trapper Education Card to evidence this.

I hold a valid, current Pennslyvania Game Commission Resident Hunting License. My Conservation ID # is 014-681-274. Please find a copy enclosed.

I currently hold a valid Florida Stare Concealed Weapon or Firearm License, which is honored by the State of Pennsylvania. My license number is W2649911. Please find a copy enclosed.

I currently hold a valid Connecticut State Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers. My permit number is 949718. Please find a copy enclosed for review.

To say that I am a danger to public safety is not only incorrect, it is offensive. I have dedicated quite a bit of time to the shooting sports and the related safety concerns that are inherent with those sports. I practive with my firearms regularly and safely at public and private ranges throughout the local area.


I suspect the above evidence will demonstrate fully my appreciation for the gravity of something so serious as carrying a firearm. The Pennsylvania Commonwealth Statutes Chapter 18, Section 1609, Subsection D, Paragraph Three clearly promulgates that “The sherriff to whom the application was made shall: ...investigate whther the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant would not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety.” As the Philadelphia Police Department has been negligent in investigating either my character or reputation are such, I contend the grounds for my denial.

To further supplement my good character and reputation, and refute that the denial was “with good cause”, I'd like to point out a few other factors that are integral to who I am as a person. When I obtained both my CT and FL concealed weapons licenses, I submitted my fingerprints to be compared against other criminals from a federal database. No matches were found. I have a completely clean criminal record, and I am a proud college graduate of the University of Missouri. I am gainfully employed, and proudly pay my Philadelphia City Wage Tax, Pennsylvania State Tax, and Federal Taxes. I am married, and have taken my wife's son in our home as my own son. Protecting them from those who would do them harm is of the utmost importance to me, and to deny that on the spurious claim that I am anything other than morally sound and safe is foolish and incorrect. Had my references been contacted, that would have been made explicit.



End Letter.
Opinions welcome, sob stories encouraged...please share.
Liam

SEE: three problems in bold above! What ever possessed you to tell them things that they would never have found out in the first place!

[govmule84]

Voluntary delete.

[SteveXD]

I have no idea why you would disclose any information that is not any of their business.

As a PA resident you cannot carry with a FL LTCF.

[Philbert]

I have no idea why you would disclose any information that is not any of their business.

As a PA resident you cannot carry with a FL LTCF.

According to the AG's office, this is not the case:

It is the position of the Office of Attorney General that recognition within Pennsylvania is based on the issuance to an individual of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

[God's Country]

What you need to understand is Phillies application process is designed to reject as many applicants as possible. IMO the only questions you need to answer are the ones on form sp 4-127, which is the standardized application.

Their questions are a catch 22 to try and trip up applicants. Admit anything they’ll reject you. Hide anything and they find out they’ll reject you. Now you have admitted to illegal activity in your past, and your screwed. You’re going to need an attorney to aide you with your appeal process IMO. If you do end up getting approved I’ll all but guarenttee when it’s time to renew they’ll reject you again.

[God's Country]

As a PA resident you cannot carry with a FL LTCF.

Why not?????

[SteveXD]

Why not?????

I always thought that a non-resident LTCF were not valid in PA if you were a resident of PA and didn't have a valid LTCF. I thought I remembered seeing threads about this on the board. I stand corrected

[govmule84]

Voluntary delete.

[God's Country]

Personally I think you’re cooked. The issuing authority has the right to deny
based on reputation and character. You admitted to illegal activity not too long ago.

(d) Sheriff to conduct investigation.-The sheriff to whom the application is made shall investigate the applicant's record of criminal convictions, shall investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year, shall investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and shall investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) and shall conduct a criminal background, juvenile delinquency or mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to firearm ownership).

At this point I would consider not posting any more information about other carry permits and past activity. Contact a lawyer.