Guns, baby, guns

[WhiteFeather]

IF some else already posted sorry I missed it.

Very interesting read

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=57044

Guns, baby, guns

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: August 8, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

During the late 1960s, certain black nationalists took up the slogan "Guns, baby, guns," the logic being that if they as American citizens were being oppressed by tyrannical elements within our government that refused to observe their civil rights, then they had the right to arm and protect themselves under the Second Amendment, which ironically was written for just such an eventuality.

As a supporter of our grotesquely compromised Second Amendment rights, I wonder if it isn't time for law-abiding Americans to consider the day when they may have to arm themselves – clandestinely, if necessary – against our enemies from without and within, a line which is growing more and more obscure with each passing week.

Associated Press, "Cops Link Black Muslim Group to Editor's Murder," Friday, Aug. 3, 2007
OAKLAND, Calif. – Police said they recovered firearms linked to the slaying of an Oakland journalist during a series of early morning raids Friday targeting members of a Black Muslim splinter group that operates a chain of bakeries.

Colleagues said Oakland Post editor Chauncey Bailey, 57, had been working on a story about Your Black Muslim Bakery before he was ambushed and slain Thursday morning near the Alameda County courthouse in downtown Oakland.

Just another "civic-minded" organization, I guess …

So, like the Mafia, we have a legitimate business fronting for a criminal organization that has no qualms with regard to violating another American's First Amendment rights – a member of the press, no less. Further, this is ostensibly a "religious organization" (or cult if you like) exacting retribution due to a perceived theological affront. If a local group of Methodists had murdered an atheist member of the press, we'd have rioting across America by now.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
– Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America

So, what is a "well regulated militia"? In the eyes of the federal government and most people, that would be the National Guard. After all, they're regular people with regular jobs, as opposed to career military.

The only problem here is that they work for (and take their orders from) the federal government. Does this arrangement not conflict with the "security of a free state" as indicated in the Constitution if the purpose of the "well regulated militia" is to prevent a tyrannical government from being in a position to forcibly subjugate the populace? Of course it does. A concerned local business networking group couldn't openly establish a militia to protect their community from terrorists or Muslim bakers no matter how "well regulated" they were; they'd be summarily branded as Randy Weavers or David Koreshes and out would come the 'Guard. End of militia.

Had Chauncey Bailey been sufficiently aware, trained and in possession of a legal firearm and had shot his attackers dead, what would the repercussions have been? Certainly an investigation into whether Bailey had acted in accord with his right to self-defense, with the Damoclesian specter of a possible prosecution.

What if, however, he had produced an unexpectedly formidable illegal firearm (such as well-armed gang members in the area use), then strafed and killed his assailants? He would have been vigorously prosecuted despite his "victims" having been his would-be assassins. He would very likely have faced prison for the firearms violation alone, given the politics of the issue.

As an American, however, seeing how events did unfold, don't you think he had the moral right (if not the legal right) to do just that if it would have saved his life?

My father used to say: "There's not much value in being 'dead right.'"

Am I suggesting law-abiding Americans violate standing firearms laws? Well, no; I am just asking the question: When does our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness outweigh totalitarian-leaning weapons laws and the politically correct concern for perpetrators' civil rights? When will that which is morally right and in the best interest of America and its citizens force reformation of our firearms laws? After all, miscegenation, the male-only vote, slavery and Jim Crow were once "the law of the land."

A very large friend of mine who, in his youth, worked as a doorman at a rough movie theater in the Bronx once had to disarm and subdue an armed inebriate. He then came within a hair's breadth of being arrested for assault and battery by New York's Finest. Their logic: He should have taken advantage of what law enforcement calls "an avenue of escape." In other words, he should have run away, leaving his customers at the mercy of this person – and possibly been shot in the back. That's the kind of gutless, nanny-state law and order that has taken root in the far-left bastions of America.

Martial law will ultimately be declared in such places when Americans become threatened on a large scale either by heretofore undetected terrorist groups or Americans who hold similar sympathies. The prospect of the police or citizens who've been systematically unarmed over the years being prepared to effectively react to such a scenario is nil.

In other areas of the country where the Second Amendment hasn't been completely neutralized, it is likely that those who enforce firearms laws will simply look the other way – and well they should. Many will trust that the citizenry, having proven proficiency and safety with firearms for generations and who are sensitive to the goings-on in their communities will be responsible when these threats eventually emerge. When some implanted terrorist or radical American is neutralized by a citizen during the commission of a crime, something more akin to "frontier justice" will prevail. The totalitarian-leaning weapons laws and politically correct concern for perpetrators' civil rights will be weighed for it is: The metaphorical smoldering bag of excrement left on our stoop, fit only to be shoveled into the handiest trash receptacle.

[Brick]

So, what is a "well regulated militia"? In the eyes of the federal government and most people, that would be the National Guard. After all, they're regular people with regular jobs, as opposed to career military.

You bring up many important points and picque my curiosity about Pennsylvania's "Militia Law". What does it say? Who is included as members of the organized and/or unorganized militia? Where can the reference be found?

Up until a few years ago I was a resident of New York State, and I once found NY's militia law online. Believe it or not that, law actually defined members of the unorganized militia as citizens 18 years old to 45 y.o. who were not members of the regular military or national guard.

While I'm at it, let me point out that the people always get the kind of law enforcement they demand. By acting through their elected legislatures, get get the laws established, likewise they get the funding for personnel to man PDs, they elect (or unelect) District Attorneys and judges. So whether you're talking about an area with low crime and an effective police force or an area where the police won't enter, they exist because that the way the people want it.

[WhiteFeather]

CONSTITUTION OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

Article 1
DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

Right to Bear Arms
Section 21.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.
Standing Army; Military Subordinate to Civil Power
Section 22.
No standing army shall, in time of peace, be kept up without the consent of the Legislature, and the military shall in all cases and at all times be in strict subordination to the civil power.
Quartering of Troops
Section 23.
No soldier shall in time of peace be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Article III
LEGISLATION

National Guard to be Organized and Maintained
Section 16.
The citizens of this Commonwealth shall be armed, organized and disciplined for its defense when and in such manner as may be directed by law. The General Assembly shall provide for maintaining the National Guard by appropriations from the Treasury of the Commonwealth, and may exempt from State military service persons having conscientious scruples against bearing arms. D. Other Legislation Specifically Authorized

We also have a law in PA that prohibits paramilitary training of two or more individuals passed back in mid 90's.

BRICK

You bring up many important points and picque my curiosity about Pennsylvania's "Militia Law". What does it say? Who is included as members of the organized and/or unorganized militia? Where can the reference be found?

As far as an actual Pennsylvania's "Militia Law" I don't know if one exist or not.


In federal law we have 10 United States code section 311 there are several other sections that also apply to most people in that code including who can't not be in, what most people don't know on this subject is amazing, I know because I spent MANY hours researching and studying on this topic because I wanted to know.

Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

The national guard was not formed till the dick act in 1907 so what was the different Militia classes as defined in several places in the Constitution referring to?

[Brick]

I'm familiar with 10 USC S 311. But Pennsylvania really confuses me.

As I understand it, Pa's Constitution is relatively new and except for a few amendments since, was adopted in 1968. So because this is not an "old" constitution, it could be argued that Pa doesn't recognize any "militia" except the National Guard.

[knight0334]

I'm familiar with 10 USC S 311. But Pennsylvania really confuses me.

As I understand it, Pa's Constitution is relatively new and except for a few amendments since, was adopted in 1968. So because this is not an "old" constitution, it could be argued that Pa doesn't recognize any "militia" except the National Guard.

As far as I can remember, PA only officially recognizes the National Guard. There is(or was) an unofficial State Guard or Military Reserve that was pushing ot get official recognition like a few other State Guards(Texas, Virginia, etc).

[NineseveN]

I'm familiar with 10 USC S 311. But Pennsylvania really confuses me.

As I understand it, Pa's Constitution is relatively new and except for a few amendments since, was adopted in 1968. So because this is not an "old" constitution, it could be argued that Pa doesn't recognize any "militia" except the National Guard.

Pa's constitution was authored by Benjamin Franklin and passed September 28, 1776


Interesting and of note:
http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/FieldsAndHardy.html

Pennsylvania adopted a bill of rights only a few months after Virginia, but its political situation was nearly the opposite of the one in Mason's state. The Pennsylvania convention was dominated by a radical coalition whose political base consisted of small farmers in the western part of the state and "mechanics," or skilled tradesmen, in Philadelphia. Its product was decidedly Jeffersonian in nature, extending the franchise to any taxpayer over the age of twenty-one, and giving a greater scope to individual rights. [98] John Adams later would note that Pennsylvania's "bill of rights [was] almost verbatim from that [p.29] of Virginia." [99] Respecting the militia issue, however, the word "almost" is one that bears emphasis because Pennsylvania clearly departed from the Virginia approach by deleting the Virginia reference to well-regulated militias and by adding a new recognition "[t]hat the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State." [100]

http://www.constitution.org/jw/acm_3-m.htm



The original PA militia law designated who was part of the militia, but it has been amended out of existence through the years IIRC.

[Brick]

From Chapter 2 of the 1776 Constitution

Sect. 5. The freemen of this commonwealth and their sons shall be trained and armed for its defence under such regulations, restrictions, and exceptions as the general assembly shall by law direct, preserving always to the people the right of chusing their colonel and all commissioned officers under that rank, in such manner and as often as by the said laws shall be directed.

From Article VI of the 1790 Constitution

Of the militia.
Sect. II. The freemen of this commonwealth shall be armed and disciplined for its defence. Those who conscientiously scruple to bear arms, shall not be compelled to do so; but shall pay an equivalent for personal service. The militia officers shall be appointed in such manner, and for such time, as shall be directed by law.

(Interesting Note: Militiamen no longer elect their own officers)

From Contitution of 1874

ARTICLE XI
MILITIA

Organization of militia. Exemption authorized.
Section 1. The freemen of this Commonwealth shall be armed, organized and disciplined for its defence when and in such manner as may be directed by law. The General Assembly shall provide for maintaining the militia by appropriations from the Treasury of the Commonwealth, and may exempt from military service persons having conscientious scruples against bearing arms.

From Constitution of 1968

National Guard to be Organized and Maintained
Section 16.

The citizens of this Commonwealth shall be armed, organized and disciplined for its defense when and in such manner as may be directed by law. The General Assembly shall provide for maintaining the National Guard by appropriations from the Treasury of the Commonwealth, and may exempt from State military service persons having conscientious scruples against bearing arms. D. Other Legislation Specifically Authorized


So if we go back to the 1776 version all freemen and their sons where eligible for militia call as required by (other) laws. The current Constitution states all Citizens (I suppose regardless of gender) as required by law. But there doesn't seem to be any other law on this subject.

I'll be glad when Pa gets all their laws on the web!

[NineseveN]

I'll be glad when Pa gets all their laws on the web!

See the link in my signature and search for "Militia" or whatever other term you want...


Searching for "militia" nets 13 results, one of them being:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...3.001.000..HTM

PART II
PENNSYLVANIA NATIONAL GUARD, PENNSYLVANIA
GUARD AND MILITIA

Subpart
A. Organization
B. Officers and Enlisted Personnel
C. Pay, Allowances, Benefits and Medals
D. Rights and Immunities

Enactment. Part II was added August 1, 1975, P.L.233, No.92,
effective January 1, 1976.

SUBPART A
ORGANIZATION

Chapter
3. The Militia
5. The Governor as Commander-in-Chief
7. Department of Military Affairs
9. The Adjutant General
11. Pennsylvania National Guard
13. Pennsylvania Guard
15. State Armory Board
17. State Veterans' Commission and Deputy Adjutant General
for Veterans' Affairs
19. Pennsylvania Veterans' Memorial Commission

CHAPTER 3
THE MILITIA

Sec.
301. Formation.

Enactment. Chapter 3 was added August 1, 1975, P.L.233,
No.92, effective January 1, 1976.
§ 301. Formation.
(a) Pennsylvania militia.--The militia of this Commonwealth
shall consist of:
(1) all able-bodied citizens of the United States and
all other able-bodied persons who have declared their
intention to become citizens of the United States, residing
within this Commonwealth, who are at least 17 years six
months of age and, except as hereinafter provided, not more
than 55 years of age; and
(2) such other persons as may, upon their own
application, be enlisted or commissioned therein.
(b) Pennsylvania naval militia.--The naval militia of this
Commonwealth, when organized pursuant to rules and regulations
promulgated by the Governor, shall consist of those persons as
may, upon their own application, be enlisted or commissioned
therein.

[Brick]

Why thank you NineseveN! I had used the legislature site a few months ago during another discussion of militia in Pa. and nothing turned up. Glad they're getting it together.

[phillyd2]

Who are these "freemen" you speak of?