Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default EMP gets a demotion

    I put this in the pistol thread cause I think it raises some good points/questions that others (especially new carriers) might benefit from. Please move if it should be.

    Every six month or so, I cycle one mag of my PP ammo through said gun. I carry a S&W M&P40c and a Springer EMP 9mm. I shoot as though it were live fire; draw - front site - doubles till empty. This last session, my EMP jammed twice. I therefore demoted it to safe queen for now.

    Background: right or wrong: before I carry any gun, I "qualify" it. I do this by shooting 300-400 flawless shots, with the last 100 or so being JHP of choice. When it passes this test, it gets into the carry list. The EMP was flawless in its break-in and qualification. Jams were things other guns did! Anyhow - it jammed so it gets pulled.

    I'll give it a look over and a good wash and wax - but the question is, is there a more foregiving PD ammo out there? I was looking at the Corbon powerball but know nothing about it. Any of you old-timers have a suggestion to make this one more robust?

    [ I use old-timers with absolute respect - I'm 51 and have been shooting only 3 years. Compared to many of you, I know very little.]

    FYI - the 40c is a beast.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: EMP gets a demotion

    I'm no old-timer for sure, but I've been shooting guns since before I can remember.

    I always use Federal hydrashoks for SD ammo because of one reason - reliablility. I've shot hundreds of rounds through several guns, and never had a jam. Many people don't like the hydrashoks as much anymore because they're a bit dated... but to hell with that - they've cycled in everyone of my semis I've put 'em into - everytime. Dated or not, they will still get the job done - ballistic gel has proven that.

    Also, it's good that you 'qualify' your guns. Too many people buy a gun, run a box of ammo through it, then load up that expensive SD ammo without ever seeing if it will cycle correctly. My 'qualifying' procedure is pretty much the same as yours.
    Last edited by max384; January 4th, 2010 at 03:26 PM.
    loose≠lose; you're=you are; 'your' shows possession.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: EMP gets a demotion

    what where you shooting when it jammed?
    how, exactly, did it jam ?

    I love the EMP in theory, and I would buy one for cc in a heart beat, if only your story was unique..... but I have yet to hear of anyone who really runs one of these and can say its reliable.

    small, 9mm, and 1911 arent things that go together easily.

    The feed profile (and performance) of Horandy TAP, and Winchester T-series ammo is pretty forgiving feed wise.

    Hydra's dont open, almost ever, might as well carry a FMJ. That post is pure marketing.

    HST's are pretty mush the best thing going in a modern HP, but the HUGE GAPING cavity and rough edges make it a feeding nightmare.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: EMP gets a demotion

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn.L View Post
    what where you shooting when it jammed?
    how, exactly, did it jam ?

    I love the EMP in theory, and I would buy one for cc in a heart beat, if only your story was unique..... but I have yet to hear of anyone who really runs one of these and can say its reliable.

    small, 9mm, and 1911 arent things that go together easily.

    The feed profile (and performance) of Horandy TAP, and Winchester T-series ammo is pretty forgiving feed wise.

    Hydra's dont open, almost ever, might as well carry a FMJ. That post is pure marketing.

    HST's are pretty mush the best thing going in a modern HP, but the HUGE GAPING cavity and rough edges make it a feeding nightmare.
    WTF? How is my post "pure marketing"? I am giving him my personal experiences with those particular rounds. If you noticed, he had trouble with feed issues and needed an ammo that was more forgiving in that aspect. In my experience, the hydrashoks have been just that - reliable. I said I use them because they are reliable even though they are dated. They do open up, just not as well as some others. When they came out, they were excellent and performed better than most of what was available. Today, other ammo has surpassed the hydrashocks in terms of opening up, hence 'being dated.' Yet, it still opens up and is certainly better than FMJs.

    Why would you call my post marketing? Do you think I have something to gain by him choosing hydrashoks over another type of SD round?
    loose≠lose; you're=you are; 'your' shows possession.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: EMP gets a demotion

    Quote Originally Posted by max384 View Post
    WTF? How is my post "pure marketing"? I am giving him my personal experiences with those particular rounds. If you noticed, he had trouble with feed issues and needed an ammo that was more forgiving in that aspect. In my experience, the hydrashoks have been just that - reliable. I said I use them because they are reliable even though they are dated. They do open up, just not as well as some others. When they came out, they were excellent and performed better than most of what was available. Today, other ammo has surpassed the hydrashocks in terms of opening up, hence 'being dated.' Yet, it still opens up and is certainly better than FMJs.

    Why would you call my post marketing? Do you think I have something to gain by him choosing hydrashoks over another type of SD round?
    no no no, soory for the misunderstanding. I was speaking of the post in the center of the hydrashock. The one they claimed would stop clogging (but doesnt) so that they would be the only ammo to have the required center post for some LE agencies (I cant recall all the specifics of who).

    We had a rep for corbon (mike shovel) come out to PMSC for a group shoot one day. He was gracious enough to bring an ass ton of ballistics gel and allow us all to shoot our carry loads in it.
    The hydra's rarley opened at all when shot through denim, only ones I saw open at all where the +p+ 9mm from a 4inch. They rely heavly on speed to function. I saw, first hand, 40SW Hydra's fail and be outperformed in both penetration and expansion by more modern 9mm loads shot from smaller guns.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: EMP gets a demotion

    from an old guy, scrap your crap and carry a 45 with hardball. it was good enuf for the T&L tests in 1905. it's good enuf now.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: EMP gets a demotion

    You did not mention what type of ammo you use for "PP" ammo.

    My Springfield EMP 9mm is my main daily carry. For SD rounds I settled on Pow`rBall as they feed just like FMJ in my EMP. With traditional FMJ's my EMP has fed about 1100 rounds flawlessly. My Hyda-Shock's & HST's FTF however. It is my understanding that this is not uncommon in 1911's and especially in compact 1911 style firearms.

    Perhaps you could try a different type of SD ammo. I think you will find one that works for you.

    I'd hate to give up my EMP, I find it too nice of a sid earm to be without.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: EMP gets a demotion

    I was there for the ballistic gel tests Shawn mentioned. I wish I had the time to make notes of each photo, but here are a few to look at:

    I'm pretty sure this was a HydraShok round(unsure of caliber)fired through denim:









    I'm pretty sure this was a CorBon round fired through denim:











    Here's the rest of the pics: (there's on more page past the one that this link opens to)
    http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g5...2008/?start=80



    As for the OP... not sure what to tell you.
    I had two malfunctions with my G19 a few days ago. Until then, I had only ever had it happen one other time that was likely due to improper grip.

    Rather than "throwing the gun away", it would be better to train how to quickly resolve the problem should it happen again. That said, you have to do what gives you peace of mind - I know I would.
    Last edited by Emptymag; January 5th, 2010 at 12:49 AM. Reason: typo
    Pittsburgh GROUP SHOOT - Eat BACON!!! Shoot PUMPKINS!!! Oct 19, 2019 - INFO HERE

  9. #9
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    Default Re: EMP gets a demotion

    Check out the Hornady Critical Defense ammo. I have seen the videos of penetration and expansion and have shot both the 9mm and .38 +P at the range and it performs well on paper.
    Join the groups protecting your rights from the fools trying to take them from you!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: EMP gets a demotion

    Thanks all - I think I have few choices to buy here and give it a go. I'll let you know what happens!

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