Private gun sales and transfers in PA

[tl_3237]

Here's something that has been bothering me that I'll put up for comment.

Is a formal (FFL) transfer required for estate (inheritance) transfers? I am/was of the opinion that no FFL transfer is required in reading §6115(b)(2) but then §6111(c) implies otherwise.


18 PA CSA

§6115(b)(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of a firearm under 20 Pa CS. Ch. 21 (relating to inter*state succession) or by bequest if the individual receiving the firearm is not precluded from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105

but

§6111(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

futhermore the definition of 'person' as used in the UFA:

1 Pa.C.S.A. § 1991 Definitions

The following words and phrases, when used in any statute finally enacted on or after September 1, 1937, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, shall have the meanings given to them in this section:

"Person." Includes a corporation, partnership, limited liability company, business trust, other association, government entity (other than the Commonwealth), estate, trust, foundation or natural person.

This is an analogous situation that GL001 alluded to where §6115 contains an exception to itself seemingly allowing an act but §6111 seems to apply an independent proscription to same.

GEEZ - even PRNJ has a directed exemption to inheritance transfers. Is PA more stringent than NJ?

Help me out here ---

[Capt Quahog]

To my limited knowledge about PA regulations . . .

For sale or transfer of a handgun to somebody not in the immediate family a person is "required" to go through a Federal Firearms licensed holder.

I do know that in the state of New Hampshire, handguns and long arms can be sold and swapped between citizens without paperwork. The only criteria is that the person receiving the gun "is known to you". So . . . two guys meet in a parking lot and introduce themselves to each other and that requirement is met. About 20-years ago, I bought a Model 1911 at a yard sale in Henniker, New Hampshire.

Though the Massholes who migrate north across the border to escape the fascist oppression there are constantly trying impose restrictive new gun laws, thankfully nothing seems to gain traction.

[BimmerJon]

Just wanted to note that my understanding is that firearm transfers do not "have to" go through an FFL.
Intrastate

A Sheriff can legally transfer it for you, bypassing a need for an FFL.

Finding one to do it might be a challenge (although legally I think they are required to).

[Capt Quahog]

Just wanted to note that my understanding is that firearm transfers do not "have to" go through an FFL.
Intrastate. A Sheriff can legally transfer it for you, bypassing a need for an FFL.

It is interesting how varied the regulations and procedures differ in so many ways state to state. In places like Massachusetts and New Hampshire, Sheriffs are almost ceremonial posts without negligible law enforcement powers. Sheriffs and Constables (political appointments) are also employed there as process servers. County government in those states doesn't have nearly the significance as that of other places.

Can't recall ever being asked in MA or NH which county I was from. When living in California it was the opposite with County Sheriffs being real police with arrest powers and patrol duties. Recall that in the 1980s, the Orange County Sheriff Department in California was held in high regard. About the only reference to a specific County in Massachusetts or New Hampshire was perhaps to find the deed to your house or get a divorce at the court house.

[soberbyker]

no offense... but I find it difficult to believe that you dont know the answer to these questions, with the services and books you have available for purchase on your site.

I thought the same thing, and he teaches classes for other state carry licenses/permits, and other firearm realted stuff as well.

.

[rwilson452]

Recall that in the 1980s, the Orange County Sheriff Department in California was held in high regard.

Sheriff Carona was held in high regard, for a time. Now he is doing time.
The sheriff before him was a corrupt political hack and every one knew it.
this was later.

[donm]

For sale or transfer of a handgun to somebody not in the immediate family a person is "required" to go through a Federal Firearms licensed holder.

I do know that in the state of New Hampshire, handguns and long arms can be sold and swapped between citizens without paperwork. The only criteria is that the person receiving the gun "is known to you". So . . . two guys meet in a parking lot and introduce themselves to each other and that requirement is met. About 20-years ago, I bought a Model 1911 at a yard sale in Henniker, New Hampshire.

"Immediate family" = spouse, child/parent, or grandchild/grandparent. Handguns can be privately transferred in most states. Pennsylvania gets 10 of its 25 "Brady Points" because of this requirement.

Just wanted to note that my understanding is that firearm transfers do not "have to" go through an FFL.

Intrastate

A Sheriff can legally transfer it for you, bypassing a need for an FFL.

To my knowledge, sheriffs who will do this are as easy to find as a shipper who will let you ship a handgun to yourself. Does anyone have recent first-hand knowledge of either?

[yankee red neck]

From what i just told at the gun shop about 30min ago you have to go to ffl and nics but that was for a out of state sale.not to shor about pa laws

[BimmerJon]

From what i just told at the gun shop about 30min ago you have to go to ffl and nics but that was for a out of state sale.not to shor about pa laws

Is an FFL needed?

Out of state = yes
In PA = no, it doesn't "have to"
(firearms: can go through a sheriff or could be a gift to spouse, parent/child, grandparent/grandchild with no transfer needed)

(long guns do not require a transfer)

[Dave_n]

One slight exception. If the gun being transferred is on the C&R list of handguns and you are a current C&R holder in PA, then you can buy the gun by handing over a signed C&R permit and then if you are wise, taking a copy of the seller's DL and phone number, You then enter the details into your bound book, This will also work in any state that does not restrict the use of C&R licences for handgun purchases. Dave_n