Private gun sales and transfers in PA

[anonymouse]

But what happens if I give a firearm to my uncle who has a license to carry a firearm. Do you need to do the paper work for this?

Yes. He is not your parent/grandparent/spouse/child.

If you were loaning the firearm to him, the fact that he has a LTCF would make that okay (per §6115(b)(1)(i)), but if you give it to him, that would be a transfer and require going through an FFL.

IANAL.

(Theoretically, could the firearm be transfered from lendar -> grandparent -> grandparent's child (lendar's uncle) ? I'm not sure...)

[lendar]

§ 6115. Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited.
(a) Offense defined.--No person shall make any loan secured
by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as
provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a
firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to
the provisions of this subchapter.
(b) Exception.--
(1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the
following apply:
(i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed
to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to
licenses).

I believe the above section states that I can give a firearm to anyone who is licensed to carry a firearm.

My next question is: Who is in violation when a firearm is sold, the seller or the buyer?

[gnbrotz]

My next question is: Who is in violation when a firearm is sold, the seller or the buyer?

The seller for sure, and it's been suggested by attorneys here that a buyer who is aware of the law could potentially be charged with conspiracy for the same transaction.

[anonymouse]

I believe the above section states that I can give a firearm to anyone who is licensed to carry a firearm.

It allows for loans. I believe there is a difference between loaning a firearm to someone and giving a firearm to someone.

(I'm still not a lawyer)

[gnbrotz]

It allows for loans. I believe there is a difference between loaning a firearm to someone and giving a firearm to someone.

(I'm still not a lawyer)

The statute does say "loan or give", and does not specify a time limit for either exchange. Might be an interesting case.

[anonymouse]

The statute does say "loan or give", and does not specify a time limit for either exchange. Might be an interesting case.

I never noticed the or give portion before! Interesting indeed.

[Deadpan]

That is interesting, but I've always taken 6115 to refer to temporary changes of possession, and 6111 to permanent changes of ownership. The fact that a particular act is exempt under the provisions of 6115 does not make it legal under every other section of the law. The part that I bolded in red strikes me as "gift" transfers, and thus suggests to me that "transfer" does include giving. The issue then is how long can a loan last before it is considered a transfer? I am not a lawyer.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6111

(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

[GunLawyer001]

§ 6115. Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited.
(a) Offense defined.--No person shall make any loan secured
by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as
provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a
firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to
the provisions of this subchapter.
(b) Exception.--
(1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the
following apply:
(i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed
to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to
licenses).

I believe the above section states that I can give a firearm to anyone who is licensed to carry a firearm.

My next question is: Who is in violation when a firearm is sold, the seller or the buyer?

I would not rely on this exception for a permanent transfer to an LTCF holder. It doesn't supersede Section 6111, it's in addition to 6111. The exception for LTCF licensees means only that Subsection (a) of 6115 doesn't apply, it doesn't mean that 6111 doesn't apply. If you give a firearm to an LTCF holder, you won't be charged under 6115, but you can still be charged under 6111. I don't know what would happen in court, that depends on the judge.

There's no time limit on a loan, but the provable circumstances could establish that it was a sale or permanent gift, and such a transfer would violate 6111.

You all may have noticed that the various pieces of the UFA don't really mesh all that well.

[Pa. Patriot]

The part that I bolded in red strikes me as "gift" transfers, and thus suggests to me that "transfer" does include giving. .

The section of 6111 you bolded only says "transfer".
Sales, gifts, trades are all transfers of ownership, thus all are included.

[Pa. Patriot]

You all may have noticed that the various pieces of the UFA don't really mesh all that well.

<Spanky voice> And how.... </Spanky voice>