Scary Situation

[Vertical453]

I'm going to be 20 years old very soon and I'm already starting to look into CC/OC laws so that I will be educated when I turn 21 and do it. My friend just the other day was telling me about something that happened to him and I began thinking what I would have done if I was there.

My friend will be 21 here in April and he was at a party with a bunch of similarly aged individuals. The host of the party was currently in the Army and me and my buddy know him well enough to know he isn't a killer or flat out criminal, but we aren't exactly acquaintances with him.

Well from my friends side of the story, this Army guy is highly intoxicated and decides to cause trouble with someone in his own house. He picks my friend, starts giving him crap about how he doesn't know what it's like to be in Iraq pulls out his AR-15, loads a mag, chambers a round and puts it to my friends head. My friend has led me to believe that this is completely true, and it's scary to even think about it. I know my friend should press charges, but I know him and it will never happen.

So the question is, if I'm there, 10 feet away while this is happening and I am armed, what should I do? I know that this guy is doing something that is absolutely stupid, but I also know enough about this guy to know the only way that gun is firing is an ND and he would never kill someone.

Please, if you guys can, spare me the "get new friends stuff". As I said, I wasn't there, and I am not friends with these people but my friend will hangout with basically anyone he can regardless of what they are like.

It seems to me the obvious answer is to shoot this guy, but I'm not sure I could do it knowing that there is a .01% chance he will fire.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

[biggs88]

I'm going to be 20 years old very soon and I'm already starting to look into CC/OC laws so that I will be educated when I turn 21 and do it. My friend just the other day was telling me about something that happened to him and I began thinking what I would have done if I was there.

My friend will be 21 here in April and he was at a party with a bunch of similarly aged individuals. The host of the party was currently in the Army and me and my buddy know him well enough to know he isn't a killer or flat out criminal, but we aren't exactly acquaintances with him.

Well from my friends side of the story, this Army guy is highly intoxicated and decides to cause trouble with someone in his own house. He picks my friend, starts giving him crap about how he doesn't know what it's like to be in Iraq pulls out his AR-15, loads a mag, chambers a round and puts it to my friends head. My friend has led me to believe that this is completely true, and it's scary to even think about it. I know my friend should press charges, but I know him and it will never happen.

So the question is, if I'm there, 10 feet away while this is happening and I am armed, what should I do? I know that this guy is doing something that is absolutely stupid, but I also know enough about this guy to know the only way that gun is firing is an ND and he would never kill someone.

Please, if you guys can, spare me the "get new friends stuff". As I said, I wasn't there, and I am not friends with these people but my friend will hangout with basically anyone he can regardless of what they are like.

It seems to me the obvious answer is to shoot this guy, but I'm not sure I could do it around 30 of my friends, knowing that there is a .01% chance he will fire.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

**IF EVERYTHING HAPPENED LIKE YOU SAID**
Press charges???

Had he did that to me, I would have pulled my gun and shot untill he was no longer standing.


There should be charges filed, he should be dishonorably discharged from the armed forces, and he should count his blessings he nor anyone else is not dead.

[cigarmanpa]

did you belive that the life of another person or yourself was in danger? if so shot him, if not, keep it holstered

[Vertical453]

did you belive that the life of another person or yourself was in danger? if so shot him, if not, keep it holstered

Yeah that's where I find myself wondering. I would be 99% sure this guy wouldn't pull the trigger, but my friends life is still obviously in danger.

[Philbert]

did you belive that the life of another person or yourself was in danger? if so shot him, if not, keep it holstered

This calculation lacks an important component of legal justification. The fact that your life is endangered does not by itself justify deadly force.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...lf-protection/

"The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat"

The threat has to be present and you must have reasonable belief that deadly force is necessary to stop the threat. You need both elements for justification.

[Brillfan]

I'm going to be 20 years old very soon and I'm already starting to look into CC/OC laws so that I will be educated when I turn 21 and do it. My friend just the other day was telling me about something that happened to him and I began thinking what I would have done if I was there.

My friend will be 21 here in April and he was at a party with a bunch of similarly aged individuals. The host of the party was currently in the Army and me and my buddy know him well enough to know he isn't a killer or flat out criminal, but we aren't exactly acquaintances with him.

Well from my friends side of the story, this Army guy is highly intoxicated and decides to cause trouble with someone in his own house. He picks my friend, starts giving him crap about how he doesn't know what it's like to be in Iraq pulls out his AR-15, loads a mag, chambers a round and puts it to my friends head. My friend has led me to believe that this is completely true, and it's scary to even think about it. I know my friend should press charges, but I know him and it will never happen.

So the question is, if I'm there, 10 feet away while this is happening and I am armed, what should I do? I know that this guy is doing something that is absolutely stupid, but I also know enough about this guy to know the only way that gun is firing is an ND and he would never kill someone.

Please, if you guys can, spare me the "get new friends stuff". As I said, I wasn't there, and I am not friends with these people but my friend will hangout with basically anyone he can regardless of what they are like.

It seems to me the obvious answer is to shoot this guy, but I'm not sure I could do it knowing that there is a .01% chance he will fire.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

This is just my opinion, but if you know the above in bold to be fact, there should be no decision to make.

But if you are not 100% sure (and probably no one could be in this situation), are you willing to jeopardize your entire future for the decision you would make?

[biggs88]

This calculation lacks an important component of legal justification. The fact that your life is endangered does not by itself justify deadly force.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...lf-protection/

"The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat"

The threat has to be present and you must have reasonable belief that deadly force is necessary to stop the threat. You need both elements for justification.

Whoever points a loaded ar-15 point blank to my head, is a threat to life. A friend, my mom, the pope, ect. . . . Once they point a loaded gun at my head, that's it.
It is more than reasonable to believe that deadly force is needed.
I am sorry. You don't put a condom on unless your going to shag. Bringout a gun, load it, then point said gun at someone means it's time to throw down. Call me old school. Lol
Now rereading the op. I see he is asking what he should do if he was there and saw this happen.

That's an issue. You have a drunk with a loaded ar15 at someones head. Yep, I see that as a life threating situation.

Intention is not known. Is he jokeing, perhaps. Is the thug pointing a gun at you going to shoot you if you do not comply, perhaps not. Will the teen holding you up with a gun shoot? Who knows. Nobody knows
But does intention matter???
After all, intention does not negate the fact that your friend had a loaded gun pointed at him. Why some one puts a life in danger is not the issue. The issue is life is in danger. One must act as he sees fit.

[YllwFvr]

**IF EVERYTHING HAPPENED LIKE YOU SAID**
Press charges???

Had he did that to me, I would have pulled my gun and shot untill he was no longer standing.


There should be charges filed, he should be dishonorably discharged from the armed forces, and he should count his blessings he nor anyone else is not dead.

^THIS!
I find this to be disgusting. He is a trained soldier and knows better! Intoxication is not an excuse

If it happened as you say..

[Dakota 35-1]

This sounds like the "trust" game that I know a few branches keep on the down low.

To a "reasonable" person, watching someone load a gun and point it at someone's head should constitute a "belief" that that person's life was in jeopardy. So, in my OPINION, it would be justifiable to have shot this alleged horrible representation of our armed forces. I, personally, would rather deal with a trial than watch my friend develop a hole that they didn't need.

[Vertical453]

This calculation lacks an important component of legal justification. The fact that your life is endangered does not by itself justify deadly force.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...lf-protection/

"The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat"

The threat has to be present and you must have reasonable belief that deadly force is necessary to stop the threat. You need both elements for justification.

This isn't really a legal discussion, because I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that putting this guy down would be justified 100%. I just noticed myself questioning it mainly because I live in a small town, and everyone knows everyone. I've heard of this guy countless times and know enough that he doesn't have it in him to pull the trigger.

I'm sure I'll get flak for saying this, but here it goes. Knowing now that he in fact did not pull the trigger, the best possible outcome would have came from not shooting him, because everyone would be alive. Of course, you can't think like that when these things happen, because it can get people (my friend) killed. It's kind of a bind I can't get over.