Good encounter last night

[SteveinNEPA]

Last night, I just finished dropping my friends husband off at work during a snow storm and his wife and I decided to wait for the roads to clear a bit before heading back, so I stopped at dunkin doughnuts on Route 611 in Mount Pocono. Sitting there drinking my coffee a Pocono Mountain regional Officer (Local officer) came in for coffee and made small talk with the cashier, got his coffee and as he was walking out he noticed my S&W on my right hip half concealed by my jacket (I half ass CC and do more OC now then I did before). He asked if that was indeed a firearm he saw, I said yes and he asked for my LTC as it WAS half concealed and if I would mind him taking it for his safety and just running my LTCF info. I obliged, letting him know that there is one in the chamber etc and it was over and done with in less than 5 minutes and I even got a compliment on my lowly sigma .40 and SERPA II holster. I should also add that when he handed everything back to me, only the mag and the chambered round was removed. He asked me to wait until he left to reload as a safety issue, I cant really say I blame him in light of the washington state incident not so long ago. He left shortly after wards, only after we talked for a few minutes about of all things, why MORE PEOPLE should carry and that he wishes all his encounters went so smoothly!

All in all a good encounter and kudos to PMRPD for being professional and courteous, not DEMANDING but rather asking in a normal tone of voice. Just thought I would share with you all.

~Steve

[normanvin]

So he removed your firearm for his safety. Then told you not to reload it until he was gone because it was a "safety issue". Wouldn't it still be a "safety issue" with the other people in the donut shop?

I am starting to think that the whole "Good encounter" thing because I did not get to hassled is bogus.

Fine the officer saw your gun partially concealed. Fine you showed him your LTCF. This has your picture and the expiration date on it. Why take the gun? To run its registration. That must be it. The whole "removing it for safety reasons" Must be code for, running the registration.

[SteveinNEPA]

Didnt really bother me, he wasnt a prick and ASKED if it was ok plus its legal and in my name so Ive nothing to hide. I could have said no as it IS within my rights and covered under the uniform firearms act to do so, but I would rather be nice about it and not get hassled. Also, the safety issue I can see, I mean think about it. He takes my LTCF to run it, what IF for whatever reason it was fake? LTCFs arent hologramed or anything, just plastic with a pic and black text. Just my .02

~Steve

[Ross11988]

So because your not a terrorist have and have nothing to hide. Does that make it ok that they strip search you at a airport or tap your phones?

[PennsyPlinker]

I think what you really mean is that he was happy because you were a compliant subject. The answers, the correct answers are, no sir, I do not need to give you my gun, and I do not even need to give you my ID unless I am being detained for a crime. I have been in your spot several times, mostly OC. The only time I gave my ID was to a Philly cop who watched me exit my vehicle with my gun OC. I have had officers ask for my ID, to which I replied with a simple "No", and that is as far as it went.

As Norman already mentioned, once that gun comes out of the holster, everyone in the area is a whole lot less safe, not just the cop. And they are not more safe once he is gone from the scene. This business of taking your gun for officer safety is a whole bunch of nothing. He asked, you complied, and he buttered you up for being such a good boy and obeying authority. He exercised illegal power over you and you rolled over for it.

[PennsyPlinker]

but I would rather be nice about it and not get hassled.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. If it is avoiding hassle you are after, do a better job of concealing your gun, and forget open carry. You are not ready for it.

[mjfletcher]

Even though you've already stated that you didn't mind what the officer did and knew what your rights were but went along with him anyway I'm gonna go through his actions anyway just for any noobs reading this.

Without Reasonable Articulable Suspicion (RAS) of criminal activity the police have no legal authority to ask to see an LTCF or run it through the system. (Terry v. Ohio, US Supreme Court, requirements for police to stop, temporarily detain, seize property including ID)
Without RAS the police have no legal authority to seize a firearm or run it through the system. (Terry v. Ohio, US Supreme Court, requirements for police to stop and temporarily detain, seize property including ID)
Because it is a legal activity, carry of a firearm whether open or concealed does not constitute RAS. (Commonwealth v. Hawkins)
"Officer safety" is not grounds to disarm someone who is carrying a firearm and only serves to create a risk of injury to the officer, the firearm owner, and all other persons within the firearms range.
Because nobody is familiar with every type of firearm in existence the officer's handling of a firearm that he may or may not be familiar with created a risk of negligent discharge.
Even when familiar with a firearm, unnecessary handling of any firearm creates a risk of negligent discharge.

When the officer asked if the OP minded him running his LTCF and disarming him the OP had the option to say "Yes officer, I do mind" and thus refused to give consent. By saying he didn't mind he consented to the officer seizing his LTCF and firearm and because he consented to the actions the lack of RAS became irrelevant. (OP, not much offense intended with the following...) The officer effectively asked "Do you mind if i bend your rights over and sodomize them with a spiked bat?" and the OP said "Go right ahead, I don't mind."

Were it not for consent being given, multiple rights protected under both the US and PA Constitutions would have been violated.

The Commonwealth takes the radical position that police have a duty to
stop and frisk when they receive information from any source that a suspect has
a gun. Since it is not illegal to carry a licensed gun in Pennsylvania,4 it is
difficult to see where this shocking idea originates, notwithstanding the
Commonwealth's fanciful and histrionic references to maniacs who may spray
schoolyards with gunfire and assassins of public figures who may otherwise go
undetected. Even if the Constitution of Pennsylvania would permit such
invasive police activity as the Commonwealth proposes -- which it does not --
such activity seems more likely to endanger than to protect the public.
Unnecessary police intervention, by definition, produces the possibility of
conflict where none need exist.

[YllwFvr]

They can be nice as can be while they step on you. "For his safety" I see an unecessary handling of the firearm and risking a ND. ANY unecessary handling of a loaded gun is unsafe, no matter how familiar you are with your firearms.

My take would have been to say its safest where it is, holstered.

Dammit I cant remember the legalities. This is a mere encounter, not a Terry Stop right? So he is not covered by color of law to take the weapon as there is no RAS a crime has been commited or is about to be? Just for my own clarification.

If that had been me in your shoes it wouldn't have been a good encounter. Nor a poor one I guess. Unless after I refused him he took it further. Glad you are ok with it though, thats all that matters in the end.

ETA: not fast enough. Fletcher answered me
This thread is going to be good

[Curmudgeon]

I can't say it any better than the other have done already, but I still want to add my opinion to the pile.

This was not a good encounter.

Unholstering a loaded weapon in a freaking coffee shop is just about the ultimate firearms safety FAIL. It would make me very happy to see this LEO stripped of his badge and punished for his stupidity and reckless behavior.

Suppose you thought the same way the LEO did? Suppose you thought it would be a good idea, having safely arrived at the coffee shop, to un-holster, un-chamber, and unload your weapon, for the safety of the others at the store? You'd be facing jail time right now, and why? Because these actions are inherently unsafe and violate the most basic rules of safe firearms handling.

As for you, OP, please refrain from carrying open or concealed until you have had training adequate to properly prepare you for it. I am truly worried for your future, as well as those around you.

Good on you for posting this. Now please learn from it, and I hope you will make out a formal complaint about this LEO's reckless behavior.

[dc dalton]

Pocono Regional must be getting twitchy or something because this is very much NOT like them.

Once you produced your LTCF there was no reason for him to take the firearm for his, or anyone else's safety.