About these fliers.....

[bripro]

I'm sure this stir the pot a little and I assure you that Im not trying to disrespect open carry in any way. The fact is that I personally choose to carry concealed about 85 percent of the time and openly only about 15% depending on what Im wearing or where Im going. It just sems that some posts suggest the fliers to be the be all and end all proof that OC is legal. Now through research we all know them to be correct but to anyone else they are nothing more than a simple photocoppied bunch of words. For example if I printed a long official letter about driving drunk being legal then handed it to a cop or civilian when they told me I cant drive like that they wouldnt want it either. My point simply being that when people refuse the fliers they are not necessarily saying that OC cant be legal but just telling you they arent going to believe a paper you handed them. The fliers definately will inspire some to research OC more and are a great idea but when someone wont take one it doesnt mean they are an ass either. Do you take every piece of propaganda handed to you at the mall or while walking through the city?

[gnbrotz]

The fliers contain both statutory and case law citations to back up the "simple photocoppied bunch of words". The fact that we have prominent firearms instructors and some LE agencies asking to distribute them in their classes and training sessions also seems like a pretty good endorsement.

I could care less if someone wants to turn down the offer of a flier or not. I'm still going to carry them and offer them whenever I think they may be useful, because in my own experience, the majority of people I've offered them to have not refused them.

[dc dalton]

I see nothing wrong with the fliers and have handed many out in the past. Everyone I gave one to thanked me and read them.

BUT, I also try and carry a copy of the LE training memo just in case I get a cop that doesn't 'get it' ... but we all know that isn't a magic bullet either.

Do what you want, it's your life, but those fliers have opened the eyes of a lot of people.

Oh and stop making copies, order some nice ones from Greg, they look 1000 times better and 'more official'

[jahwarrior72]

The fliers contain both statutory and case law citations to back up the "simple photocoppied bunch of words". The fact that we have prominent firearms instructors and some LE agencies asking to distribute them in their classes and training sessions also seems like a pretty good endorsement.

I could care less if someone wants to turn down the offer of a flier or not. I'm still going to carry them and offer them whenever I think they may be useful, because in my own experience, the majority of people I've offered them to have not refused them.

what he said.

plus, your comparison of drunk driving to open carry is off. a closer analogy would have been to compare concealed carry to driving a car; both are privileged behavior, requiring licensing from the state. the open carry of firearms is a right, and therefore no license is required to do it, except for in Philthadelphia.

attention, everyone: owning a firearm is a right! operating a vehicle is a privilege! stop comparing the two.

[rmodel65]

what he said.

plus, your comparison of drunk driving to open carry is off. a closer analogy would have been to compare concealed carry to driving a car; both are privileged behavior, requiring licensing from the state. the open carry of firearms is a right, and therefore no license is required to do it, except for in Philthadelphia.

attention, everyone: owning a firearm is a right! operating a vehicle is a RIGHT! stop comparing the two.

the right to freely travel is just that a right...........

[jahwarrior72]

the right to freely travel is just that a right...........

you have the right to travel freely, yes. so start walking. the only methods of transport i know of that do not require the traveller to submit to arbitrary rules and regulations are walking, and jogging. even then, if you're walking through a national park, you must submit to their rules. if you're jogging down the street, you must conform to traffic rules. see whut ah'm sayin'?

you can travel freely. the method of travel, however, can be tightly regulated. PA regularly institutes driving bans during inclement weather. if the Commonwealth so desired, they have the power to institute no-drive zones anywhere they wished, something like what was doneto a downtown area in London, UK.

[gnbrotz]

the right to freely travel is just that a right...........

By foot. Operating a motor vehicle on a government provided roadway is a privilege.

[Emptymag]

I think I may know what bripro is getting at. If I'm wrong in my assumption, he can clarify.

I feel the fliers are very useful when used as intended, however, I see SO many posts that speak of having/giving fliers as though they are a magic talisman, able to ward off any and all "encounters" of the negative variety - specifically LEO encounters.

That sort of thinking is going to get someone in trouble that isn't entirely prepared for such "trouble".


Fliers = Good.
Fliers w/o fully understanding everything represented in them = Bad

[jahwarrior72]

By foot. Operating a motor vehicle on a government provided roadway is a privilege.

there you go again, saying what i meant to say, but with half the words. goddamn these words!

[tlgpa]

It just sems that some posts suggest the fliers to be the be all and end all proof that OC is legal.

I've never seen a post implying the fliers offered any sort of magical protection. I've seen posts where they're accepted and others where they're refused.

Do you take every piece of propaganda handed to you at the mall or while walking through the city?

The difference is, the OC fliers are generally handed out during an altercation or discussion of gun rights.
Not just handed out on street corners as propaganda.

If I were in an argument with someone, and they said "Here, this flyer proves you're wrong. All the applicable laws are there, you're free to look them up yourself" then I'd probably accept it.