Legality of carrying in a national guard armory???

[fingers80002]

Can anyone answer my ?, does this apply to civilian visitors?

[ReconLdr]

Can anyone answer my ?, does this apply to civilian visitors?

Federal military installations do not allow personally owned weapons except for hunting and weapons must be checked in post security. At no time would you be permited to carry OC/CC.

Ft Indiantown Gap is a state run facility, I am not sure about the "Law" but the TAG or CG of an installation can set his/her own policy. To answer your question, I guarantee if you carry on FtIG and are noticed, you will have to deal with FtIG LEOs and they have not a care in the world about your rights on their post. They have nothing better to do with their time than fuck with you.

I do not carry when I am at the Gap, I highly recommend that you not either, especially since the Ft Hood thing.

[fingers80002]

Federal military installations do not allow personally owned weapons except for hunting and weapons must be checked in post security. At no time would you be permited to carry OC/CC.

Ft Indiantown Gap is a state run facility, I am not sure about the "Law" but the TAG or CG of an installation can set his/her own policy. To answer your question, I guarantee if you carry on FtIG and are noticed, you will have to deal with FtIG LEOs and they have not a care in the world about your rights on their post. They have nothing better to do with their time than fuck with you.

I do not carry when I am at the Gap, I highly recommend that you not either, especially since the Ft Hood thing.

I don't go there, I was just asking, seeing as it is a State Facility, not Fed.

[max384]

I completely disagree. And thanks for getting this thread completely off track. Next time PM me with this.

I feel that he has the right to protect himself and I will let him know that. Just because the rule is in place, does not make it right. It should also be pointed out that the soldier in question is a fellow NCO that I have served with in the same unit for almost 10 years. There was also no standing rule that any of us knew about prohibiting the carrying of a weapon at that time.

Okay, sorry for going off the deep end Steve. I was pissed at something else when I read and responded to your post originally. It sounded okay then. I understand that you were giving helpful advice Steve_NEPhila.

As a 1SG and still serving I will tell that carrying any weapon that was not issued to you while in uniform is a recipe for a career ending action. Telling a Soldier to conceal a weapion and NOT tell anyone is also a great way to lose rank, get dishonorably discharged and get a free trip to the grey bar hotel.
On a side note I support the second ammend fully and carry when I am out of uniform and in PA and would love to carry in uniform but I fully understand what could happen and what would happen if it was known.

I have a small number of other issues that I would discuss in a PM but you don't seem to want to hear them.

I did not actually tell him to carry concealed again. I told him that he's not allowed to (and that it was bullshit in light of Ft. Hood and an unarmed military building full of military personnel being a prime target) and that I officially do not condone it... but "if" he did it anyway, don't tell anyone - keep concealed carry a secret. We've known each other for a long time, he's an NCO, and he's been around long enough that he knows the consequences... as do I. I didn't really explain it in much detail when I originally posted because I didn't really look at it from the outside looking in. I know, probably not the right answer... but we both understand each other on the subject.

And I will hear any criticism.

I work out at Ft Indiantown Gap, and I know about a two or three months ago they put out a letter from the TAG stating no personal firearms are allowed on any National Guard facilities. So that is probablely where your First Sargent is getting his info.

I didn't hear about that, but that cements it as far as the military side of things. I'll have to inquire about that at drills this weekend.

I've been out for a couple years myself, split a career between active and NG. Never had a problem with my superiors while carrying a personal sidearm. A bunch of the other sgts were local LEO's and they carried as well.

To the OP's 1Sgt I would have to say what...does a National Guard Armory seem like LESS of a target for terroristic activity? All I know is that if someone stormed the armory looking to cause damage the closest firearm we could get to if we weren't allowed to have our own were the M-4's locked in the vault in the basement. A whole lotta death can be done before someone gets the Supply Sgt. to shake a leg (assuming he doesn't die before that) and open up the vault.

Just sayin, the OP's 1Sgt is an ass but if thats the drivel he's spewing then until you get the XO or CO to override him (at the company level) his order is lawful. and as such needs to be obeyed...but it doesn't need to be accepted. Work it up the chain...see what comes down the pike.

I may have portrayed the 1SG as an ass (unintentional), but he really isn't. He is a hard ass that goes by the book, but still a good guy from what I've heard from others and seen so far. I just disagree with him on that point... but if it came down from TAG, his hands are tied.

[PreserveandProtect]

I don't go there, I was just asking, seeing as it is a State Facility, not Fed.

FIG has a number of special challenges in its official status, location, and layout. Case in point: A public highway goes through the middle of it- who patrols it? State police or Base?

If you get a ticket, is it any different than a standard PSP ticket, or is it now a "federal" issue?

"Federal" is in quotes because it is a state facility. I was given the rundown of the history of the facility causing some issues and the reclassification some years ago (supposedly resolving a number of issues). The same people warned about getting a "federal" speeding ticket (which I never did), which seemed like strange wording to me.

I apologize I don't recall all the info, but maybe this will prompt someone who knows it well to speak about it being a Fort, who owns it, etc.

FYI. FIG does/did require all visitors to register and get badges, even for the easily accessible areas on post. (Trailers in the field). This was a few years ago, but they were trying to get things more formalized, including official photography/video rules, etc.

"Public" hunting was also an issue, although I *think* they issued permits for most (some/all?) areas for hunting.

You could always ask at the badge/ID center (visitors, not CAC) as a civilian.

I will be watching with interest

[GIJim]

As a military police officer, I can tell you much of whats already been stated: federal military installations are a no carry zone for anyone, save federal law enforcement. This includes Reserve centers and training sites. Not being PANG, I can't offer much insight towards national guard vs. federal. Regardless, concealed carry in a UNIFORM will never be authorized. You will not find military police, MPI, CID, carrying concealed in UNIFORM. You will never find any of the aforementioned toting their personal firearm. Off base and out of uniform do what you want. I'm not saying whats right or whats wrong, its just the way it is. The national guard still follows the United States Army, the obvious difference is the funding comes from the state. Your uniform still says U.S. Army, and you'll still get fucked up. In addition, UCMJ still applies to off duty military personnel. You can be stacked with military charges in addition to civilian charges for off duty civilian crimes that have nothing todo with the Army. On or off duty, uniform or civies, you won't be able to carry at your National Guard facility. If its state property, a plain civilian would be able to, provided there are no specific signs, etc. A Reserve center differs in that, anyone, military or civilian, commits a federal crime simply driving into the parking lot with a firearm in the car. Obviously, these places aren't screening vehicles like a full installation but technically, you can not do it.

I am positive that FIG is following the rest of the world's facilities and carrying is not allowed. Welcome to the military. FIG PD also patrol the main road through the installation to answer the other questions. State police could also if they desired.

[ReconLdr]

I was thinking about this all night... If Ft Indiantown Gap is a state facility (not Federal) wouldn't preemption apply?

[mjf]

I was thinking about this all night... If Ft Indiantown Gap is a state facility (not Federal) wouldn't preemption apply?

No, preemption only applies to counties, municipalities, and townships.

[ReconLdr]

No, preemption only applies to counties, municipalities, and townships.

I know, I was reaching. (grasping at straws)

[nlcrsn]

I dont know the law or legality of National Guard, I do know you cant be charged under UCMJ, you are a state employee under direction of the Governor, the President requests National Guard troops to be placed on Federal Orders. Then under orders you fall under UCMJ. My thoughts are state property, state authority, as far as laws go, your a non LEO state employee, with a few differences being you signed a contract !!-??