ftf transfer

[Asmodeus6]

A FTF sale that involves another PA resident whom you have no reason to believe is prohibited from possessing a firearm is all that is required by law IMO, and is the standard I have always used. The "law" would have to prove that you knowingly sold the gun to someone that is prohibited.

The bill of sale is fine if it makes you feel better about the whole deal.

I recently sold an Arisaka to a guy in the parking lot of a closed down supermarket at 8:30 pm. I needed to sell, he wanted to buy, and our work schedules only permitted us to meet when and where we did. If I had insisted on a FFL transfer, I would still have the rifle.

I have passed up more than one firearm on the trader because of peoples paranoia and need to induce weird thought processes into what should be a simple process.

My uncle always put it this way:
"Every gun I ever sold was to a dealer at a show, he paid cash, and I didn't get his name since no law requires that I do, what he did with it afterward is none of my concern, legally or morally."

We just did a similar kind of transaction with a very nice guy from PAFOA. He had the cash, and was willing to meet us later when she got home, so off we went. I think it was nearly 10PM. We met a nice guy, swapped a rifle for cash and were both on our way. ID's were verified by both parties so there was no question everyone was who they said they were, and I did a bill of sale from the classifieds at a mutual request.

It was legally sold, legally bought, I'll never think about it again.

My legal obligation is to ensure that you are 18 years of age. A PA ID or DL can confirm that in 2 seconds. And to not sell to you if for some reason I know you are a felon.

That's it.

Anyone that wants me to go to an FFL to transfer a rifle will be selling it / buying it from someone else. Why the fuck would I waste my time and money with that?

[Pa. Patriot]

Makes no sense to me. I guess they are covering themselves by making sure the official paper trail for their ownership of said gun ends.

My point was they *think* they are covering themselves. But really there is little to cover from. IE: unnecessary

[39flathead]

Well... If they are not "covering anything" - then why are they asking to "transfer their rifle" at an FFL??

Makes no sense to me. I guess they are covering themselves by making sure the official paper trail for their ownership of said gun ends.

They are asking for a FFL transfer because they do not/refuse to, understand the law, or as I call it, paranoia.

What official paper trail?
There are millions of ghost guns out there, all legal. If a gun was to be traced, the trace starts at the manufacturer, go to the distributor, to the first FFL, then to the original buyer. If the original buyer tells the police that he sold it to a guy in a Kmart parking lot and does not know the guys name, the "official" paper trail ends right there and the guy is not responsible for anything that was done with it afterward and I have never heard of a court case to prove otherwise.


I used to be a FFL, after I closed up and allowed my license to expire, I legally took personal possession of all of my remaining stock. After a couple of years, I sold most of the stuff off at shows, Gunbroker and through classified ads.
About three years ago, I was contacted by Florida State police inquiring as to the whereabouts of an Entreprise STG58 Fal I sold at a show. They had tracked it to me through the wholesaler.
I informed the officer that I had closed my business, retained possession of my stock, and as a private seller had sold that rifle at the now defunct Greensburg show. He asked for the buyers name, and I informed him that it was a private sale of a longarm between two Pennsylvania residents and that I kept no records since no such law requires me to do so.
He asked me for an approximate date of sale, I guessed at it for him, he thanked me, hung up, and I never heard from him or anyone else again regarding that gun.

I was not hauled before a grand jury, I was not extradited to Florida, no body took away my birthday, nothing, because I did nothing illegal.


Sorry to rant, but two things really irk me, private sellers insisting on FFL transfers for no good reason other than to be a pain, and buyers that buy direct from the wholesaler, cutting out the local dealer, and then expect the dealer to do the paperwork for $5.

[nfafan]

We just did a similar kind of transaction with a very nice guy from PAFOA.

<snip>

My legal obligation is to ensure that you are 18 years of age. A PA ID or DL can confirm that in 2 seconds. And to not sell to you if for some reason I know you are a felon.

That's it.

<snip>

True that!

[nfafan]

They are asking for a FFL transfer because they do not/refuse to, understand the law, or as I call it, paranoia.

What official paper trail?

<snip>(The 4473 that Joe Homeoner completed when he bought a gun.)

I used to be a FFL, after I closed up and allowed my license to expire, I legally took personal possession of all of my remaining stock.

<snip> (You also sent in your bound book and 4473's to the ATF.)

About three years ago, I was contacted by Florida State police inquiring as to the whereabouts of an Entreprise STG58 Fal I sold at a show. They had tracked it to me through the wholesaler.

Yes, the paper trail from wholesaler to dealer. And...

Had you NOT surrendered your FFL and were STILL in the business and had your BBook, you would have been able to produce the 4473's for sales of any/all the guns sold for anyone the cops cared to ask about.

A paper trail.

And some folks are (understandably in this sue-happy nation) paranoid about ending a paper trail tied to them.
They would rather think that by titling the gun to YOU - an FFL holder - they are rightfully off the hook for any future misuse of said gun once you posess it, whether you resell it or not.

Almost can't blame them for being worry-warts. We live in a country where people sue because of Christ being in Christ-mas.


<snip>

I was not hauled before a grand jury, I was not extradited to Florida, no body took away my birthday, nothing, because I did nothing illegal.

No, you did nothing wrong and I did the exact same things when I surrendered my FFL.

As lawful FFLs we had cover for what we lawfully transacted; it's long out of our hands once its shown that any dealings were in compliance with the laws.


Sorry to rant, but two things really irk me, private sellers insisting on FFL transfers for no good reason other than to be a pain, and buyers that buy direct from the wholesaler, cutting out the local dealer, and then expect the dealer to do the paperwork for $5.

^^^^^^^^^^ +1 to that. Although if a brick/mortar FFL can feed himself over somone's paranoia...

[indianjack]

I wonder if there is any way to know if you are buying a stolen gun or not, Does that show up when the FFL does the instant check?

Just asking

[gnbrotz]

I wonder if there is any way to know if you are buying a stolen gun or not, Does that show up when the FFL does the instant check?

Just asking

No. No information about the firearm is exchanged during the PICS call.

[Maquis]

These private sale guidelines apply to handguns as well, right?

[gnbrotz]

These private sale guidelines apply to handguns as well, right?

Unless taking place between parent/grandparent/child/grandchild/spouse, "private" handgun sales/trades/gifts must be facilitated through an FFL, so the PICS process makes all the necessary legal verifications.

[Maquis]

Unless taking place between parent/grandparent/child/grandchild/spouse, "private" handgun sales/trades/gifts must be facilitated through an FFL, so the PICS process makes all the necessary legal verifications.

Ah thanks, I didn't know that.