lets talk loong range mosin

[beefcakeb0]

i am new to long range shooting, and would like to discuss multiple aspects of it, beginning with which to use, preparations, advice, tactics, opinions, distances, Coriolis effect, drop, modifications, anything i might need to know...

please share,

i will start, if this is improperly placed please move or close.

i have a bright bore m44 and a dirty bore 91/30 that i have used approx 600 swabs through, its getting cleaner every week lol...

which should i begin with as a noob? neither are counterbored, both matching #s

thanx for reading and in advanced for replies and/or moderation!

[PA Rifleman]

Open sights or scoped?

Distance?

How's the headspace?

Do you reload? If not, what type of ammunition do you plan to use?

To whet your appetite:

[beefcakeb0]

open sights

any far,

not yet reloading,

yellow tips (hun?), silver tips, and i believe some more czech non silver? not really sure, but i will be needing some more maybe in the spring so any advice there is cool too...

dont know on the headspace, it shoots, I'm alive, got about 200 cases w/out swelling, and my cousin and i can both get 4 out of 5 in the bullseye at 25 yrds out of both of them. and i have just jokingly tried at a little over 220 to maybe 250 and hit 2 out of 10 maybe 15

can't watch that vid right now but if that is the youtube of a guy shooting 1000, in the desert, with google earth photos, and an orange steel gong I watch that video like once a week

[Tomcat088]

open sights

any far,

not yet reloading,

yellow tips (hun?), silver tips, and i believe some more czech non silver? not really sure, but i will be needing some more maybe in the spring so any advice there is cool too...

dont know on the headspace, it shoots, I'm alive, got about 200 cases w/out swelling, and my cousin and i can both get 4 out of 5 in the bullseye at 25 yrds out of both of them. and i have just jokingly tried at a little over 220 to maybe 250 and hit 2 out of 10 maybe 15

cant watch that vid right now but if thats the youtube guy shooting 1000 in the desert with google earth photos and a orange steel gong i watch that video like once a week

Yep, the video that you mentioned is the one that was posted up. You have seen it before, and there's also another video of a guy shooting 275 yards with a 91/30.

I'm just going to come out and say it, there will be some that probably disagree and it's most likely not what you want to hear. I don't want to crush your dreams, but I want you to know the REALITY of what you're talking about, before you pour in all the money you do have on it. You will probably not do any serious or consistent type of long range shooting with the equipment that you've mentioned. This is not to say that you couldn't ring a big gong every once in a while at 500 yards, or that you couldn't walk some rounds into a target sometimes at longer distances. That's plenty of fun, but not what I'd call long range shooting, and more "throwing some rounds down long range".

MOST Mosins are not suitable for long range shooting, even the sniper grade rifles during WWII were carefully selected and modified. They weren't the same as every other grunt on the front rifle, they showed potential for higher accuracy. The rifle that the gentleman is shooting to 1,000 yards is a modified Mosin, it's had the bolt handle swap, been tapped, and has a scope on it. He is using handloads that are probably held to a pretty high standard, and is shooting at a target that is almost 2 moa. It's good shooting for the equipment that he's shooting, and at the distances that he's shooting. Either way, his handloads are going to be more consistent, accurate, etc, than your current set up. For what it's going to cost you to bring that equipment up to par, you may be able to just get a different rifle and start from there. There's already some threads here about polishing up a Mosin for long range shooting.

Mosins are good rifles, especially for the price and era they came from. Either way, the rifles most people buy are not sniper grade or even close to it; so don't try to hold them to that standard. I would advise you to work on your fundamentals of marksmanship LONG before you go trying to polish up a mosin or shoot long range. If you can only get 2 in 10 or 15 at 225 yards, you won't have any type of consistent results for anything further. When you get to 500 yards wind starts to have a pretty measurable effect on bullets, before that, it's a cake walk. What I'm trying to say is that as the distance increases, the difficult gets EXPONENTIALLY harder, not just twice as has for twice the distance. I would advise do NOT spend money on spotting scopes, bolt handles, optics etc, if you're on a limited budget. Spend the money on ammunition, and practice, learn your fundamentals. That way you make the most of every single dollar that you have, so that later when you are actually able to utilize the equipment, your skills will be closer to what they need to be. EVERYBODY wants to shoot LR, until they find out how much it costs, and how much time and dedication it takes. If you want to be decent at it, you'll spend thousands of dollars (just in ammunition), you'll spend plenty on your rifle, optics, etc. The fact of the matter is, people don't ever really get into TRUE long range shooting, and there's nothing wrong with that. Shoot the distances that make you happy and that you enjoy, but I would advise that you don't just jump in thinking that you're going to go shoot 800 or 1,000 yards. Whether people want to admit it or not, 500 yards is a hell of a long ways. Shooting is a perishable skill, you have to stay on top of it and constantly spend the money (ammo) to be a good LR shooter. Start small and learn how to pull the trigger correctly at 100 yards with irons; then start to learn to stretch things out.

[beefcakeb0]

pretty much what i was thinking, except for shutting down my dreams forever....j/k nah im not expecting marine recon sniper status, or even moa, i just want to do exactly as you suggested, and work my way into it with the best knowledge, increasing my competence, and increasing my marksmanship.

are you suggesting the mosin is not a good rifle to become more proficient on?

now im a decent shooter, dont let the 2 out of 10 fool you it was after sunset, freestanding, tshirt & short wearing me in flip flops in the cold( dumbass) becoming dark( demonstrating muzzle flash) shooting cardboard on a hay bail, i do not represent that as a exclamation of my shooting ability

i know there are important factors to reaching 500 and 1000 yards, and i dont expect that on either of mine own. but i do expect to be able to drop a tango at or around 250.

so continue with edumacating me i love to hear great minds colaborate

thank you for you words

[Tomcat088]

pretty much what i was thinking, except for shutting down my dreams forever....j/k nah im not expecting marine recon sniper status, or even moa, i just want to do exactly as you suggested, and work my way into it with the best knowledge, increasing my competence, and increasing my marksmanship.

are you suggesting the mosin is not a good rifle to become more proficient on?

now im a decent shooter, dont let the 2 out of 10 fool you it was after sunset, freestanding, tshirt & short wearing me in flip flops in the cold( dumbass) becoming dark( demonstrating muzzle flash) shooting cardboard on a hay bail, i do not represent that as a exclamation of my shooting ability

i know there are important factors to reaching 500 and 1000 yards, and i dont expect that on either of mine own. but i do expect to be able to drop a tango at or around 250.

so continue with edumacating me i love to hear great minds colaborate

thank you for you words

If those are your expectations, then they're spot on, and the Mosin won't fail you. If you know what a good one is capable of, and that's within your expectation for accuracy, you'll be fine. I DO think that a Mosin is a rifle that can help you get more proficient in your shooting. They are relatively cheap to shoot for a big bore centerfire, and fun. You'll have to focus on your trigger, or maybe try to tweak it a little yourself. A 7 pound trigger that has creep takes some practice to master, some people would view it as detrimental to accuracy, others will say that it'll make you work harder. If you won't just "accept" substandard shooting, I think it'll make you work harder. A decent little .22 LR is something else to consider to help you in your marksmanship. You can learn a lot about fundamentals by shooting rimfire, and even learn a fair bit about wind drift. The other benefit of shooting .22 LR is that it's DIRT CHEAP compared to other rifle ammunition. Dry firing rifles (NOT rimfires) is another very cheap and effective way to practice and get familiar with your rifle.

I didn't know all the other conditions that you're shooting in, and I won't doubt you if you say that you already are a good shooter. There's always tons of things to learn for LR shooting. The most important being the fundamentals of marksmanship. You MUST shoot Natural Point Aim (NPA), shoot during the natural respiratory pause, and pull the trigger properly (straight back without disturbing your NPA). If you can do those things, then the rest just takes a little time and some more rounds down range. After you've mastered those things, you will need a decent rifle (not the best), and a consistent load (factory match ammunition, or a good reload). If you don't have those things and start to try to shoot long range, you'll just be guessing. At 1,000 yards, if you start getting SD's of over 15 fps, even in a vise with a 1/4 moa rifle, you'll be missing the target by 10-12" easily. That's just from changes in your ammunition, not even shifting wind, mirage, or upsetting the rifle.

After you've got a decent rig, there's lots of things that you kind of work on at once. You will begin to dope your rifle, learn to call your shot perfectly, cold bore, and how to read the wind. In the process, you'll learn the particulars of your rifle, your own personal habits, traits of your reload and it's temperature sensitivity, etc; IF you are willing to meticulously log everything. We're talking about ranges, temperature, barometric pressure, altititude (if not on your normal range), humidity, light angle, even the mood you're in, and one of the most important things, WIND.

There's lots to learn and I've probably missed lots of things and gotten some things out of order, but it's most important to learn how to pull the trigger consistently. Mosins can be pretty heavy recoiling for most people, and it's quite easy to develop a flinch with the big bores. I don't know your experience with big bore rifles, but you will always need to focus and make sure that you're not flinching.

[PA Rifleman]

...
i have a bright bore m44 and a dirty bore 91/30 that i have used approx 600 swabs through, its getting cleaner every week lol......

All other factors equal, the 91/30 will be easier to shoot longer distances due to the longer sight radius, and slightly high muzzle velocity.

...

now im a decent shooter, dont let the 2 out of 10 fool you it was after sunset, freestanding, tshirt & short wearing me in flip flops in the cold( dumbass) becoming dark( demonstrating muzzle flash) shooting cardboard on a hay bail, i do not represent that as a exclamation of my shooting ability...

...
are you suggesting the mosin is not a good rifle to become more proficient on?
...

This is what he said:

...

MOST Mosins are not suitable for long range shooting, even the sniper grade rifles during WWII were carefully selected and modified. They weren't the same as every other grunt on the front rifle, they showed potential for higher accuracy. ...

Mosins are good rifles, especially for the price and era they came from. Either way, the rifles most people buy are not sniper grade or even close to it; so don't try to hold them to that standard. I would advise you to work on your fundamentals of marksmanship LONG before you go trying to polish up a mosin or shoot long range....

Sage advice.

[beefcakeb0]

how does gless bedding work? is it expensive? I have never seen this before, don't let my false arrogance make it seem like im trying to negate the need to become more proficient at shooting, which was part of the reason i posted this, to get any available assistance extending my comfort zone,

im going to try in warm clothes, sitting, in the daytime, to get around shooting again here soon at some distant targets, i will probably spray paint the pans i have and more than likely just try to get around 200yds consistently

keep the pointers coming guys, thanx a lot for the advise, and constructive criticism

[beefcakeb0]

my guess was a fiberglass 'bed' the barrel rides to absorb barrel bounce, and googlefu semi confirms i guess. can this be a diy project? similar to free floating?

[Tomcat088]

my guess was a fiberglass 'bed' the barrel rides to absorb barrel bounce, and googlefu semi confirms i guess. can this be a diy project? similar to free floating?

This should give you a bit more of an explanation about "glass bedding" which is a general term. It's not quite what you think it is. It can be a do it yourself project although you can screw it up and then have to dremel out big chunks of it as well. I've seen quite a few people not pay attention and screw up triggers before too. http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/421...-floating.html . That's an explanation of what you're looking for, and what it looks like. It'll help if you follow the other links in the post.

I've never even pulled a mosin action out of a stock, so I have no idea what they look like underneath, or how to go about bedding one. I'm sure there are plenty of other webpages that have directions and how to go about it though.