lets talk loong range mosin

[RandomTask]

Might not be the best, but for the money it's pretty good, the swiss sniper Simo Hayha killed over 200 russian's with an iron sight M28 mosin-nagant!

Actually, the number was 505 confirmed sniper kills, plus 200 kills in close combat. The 5' 3" munchkin accomplished this in 100 days in the middle of the harsh winter.

As far as the OP's project goes, I'd avoid all the fuss and start with a Swiss K31. Right out of the box you'd have a better barrel, better trigger and better ammo.

[beefcakeb0]

I do want to get into handloading, but cash is tight with christmas and all, I have began collecting tools here and there... maybe and hopefully by new years or spring I will be about there. To a naysayer if by shits n giggles you mean enjoying a vintage rifle by all means your dead on, but I am not just trying to waste money lobbing bullets...


this is from 125 yards estimated, standing, what do I need to do,

the get another rifle advice is great but off topic, I am interested in discussion about soviet wwII era rifle shooting here. I would love to go buy a savage and then a rem 700, but i know there were thousands of kills made with these old beauties, and I want to do it. I love the k31 too, but that would by in my dreams to buy that, not likely

suggestions, POA advise? I have been reading about what to polish on the trigger and bolt, and also think I may want to cork the barrel but thats why I am here to learn...

I did hit 2 out of every 10 from way far I dunno maybe 200 or 250, I took a picture of the distance maybe somebody could guess range via picture? And if somebody else tries to say not with a mosin, I will only take that as a challenge, so bring it on...lol

[arrrrgh15]

Naysayer? Good lord, you haven't paid attention to a single thing anybody has said. We're not naysayers, were realists.

Lets be clear about the expectations of actual long range shooting. At 125 with a long range rifle you should be shooting 1 inch squares, 10 for 10. You should be hitting 2" squares 10 for 10 at 200, if you expect to go further, say 500, 1000 etc.

So grade your target and restate your intended purpose because your original posts eluded to actual long range shooting, to include ballistics, wind, etc.

Shooting a WWII vintage rifle at a cardboard box at ranges out to a couple hundred yards with iron sights and from assorted shooting positions is not long range shooting, as the title of the thread states.

There is no advice to give you on things like range estimation, wind, ballistics, etc, because they don't factor in at close ranges.

You asked about long range shooting and people gave you their honest opinion and tried to steer you in the right direction. My goal is to try and instruct on actual long range shooting. If you persist in thinking that you're going to do it with a Mosin, you're wasting your time, and my time and everybody elses time that tried to explain it. That's the reality.

As for the challenge, there are various competitions held around the country that test the shooter and equipment in a variety of real world scenarios. If you lived in PA I'd offer to pay your registration fee to a sniper comp to test your theory. That'd be my way of "bringing it."

It might suprise you that there are a few people here, myself included, that actually do shoot long range, do it well, and could teach you everything you need to know. But none of them will be of any help to you if you refuse to listen. This summer I helped teach a LR shooting course and people with rifles that shot much better than the Mosin had a very tough time doing it.

Good luck.

R15 Out.

[PA Rifleman]

Might not be the best, but for the money it's pretty good, the swiss sniper Simo Hayha killed over 200 russian's with an iron sight M28 mosin-nagant!

Must have been a very target rich environment. Considering the russians tactics, that number isn't really all that impressive. If it was in an urban environment, the shots were probably not "long range" shots either.

...

To put a fine point on this exchange, Häyhä was a Finnish sniper in the 1939-40 Winter War between the USSR & Finland, not Swiss. His body count was far higher than 200 as well. The significance of Häyhä was his persistence in developing strong basic marksmanship skills rather than looking for solutions in equipment. This is a lesson that's being lost today.

The Finn variant of the Mosin has a reputation above repute for accuracy, mostly improved barrel dimensional consistency and increased rigidity. The Finns also incorporated free floating barrels in their Mosins that gave the Finns a substantial advantage over their Soviet counterparts. The M39 is fairly close to a modern high end rifle in terms of accuracy and performance.

[animalmother85]

Must have been a very target rich environment. Considering the russians tactics, that number isn't really all that impressive. If it was in an urban environment, the shots were probably not "long range" shots either.

not to go tit-for-tat, but how many people have you shot?

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hayha.html

link about Simo Hayha. The military channel did brief documentary on him a few days ago, the article above is pretty much on with the statistics(I have also read other various literature on him that coincides with this). He was pretty awesome especially for the environment and climate he operated in.

Please don't read into this as a jab at you personally.

[beefcakeb0]

Lets be clear about the expectations of actual long range shooting. At 125 with a long range rifle you should be shooting 1 inch squares, 10 for 10.

Yes in an ideal world everybody would expect that, but I too am a realist, and do not expect to do this immediately

So grade your target and restate your intended purpose because your original posts eluded to actual long range shooting, to include ballistics, wind, etc.

I have graded my target and will declare it is poor. It would however, put some creature to the ground if the ammunition is what I read it is. 3 semi center mass hits, 2 in the hip/thigh zone

There is no advice to give you on things like range estimation, wind, ballistics, etc, because they don't factor in at close ranges.

You asked about long range shooting and people gave you their honest opinion and tried to steer you in the right direction. My goal is to try and instruct on actual long range shooting. If you persist in thinking that you're going to do it with a Mosin, you're wasting your time, and my time and everybody elses time that tried to explain it. That's the reality.

The sights are marked for 1000, so I pretty much hope to at least get to half that, and if that is a waste of your time I apologize for bothering you. but I would hope that you instruct me what to do... to improve the shitty score with what I have, and want to use...because I am not going to take the advice that it isn't going to happen.

As for the challenge, there are various competitions held around the country that test the shooter and equipment in a variety of real world scenarios. If you lived in PA I'd offer to pay your registration fee to a sniper comp to test your theory. That'd be my way of "bringing it."

I am not upfor that type of challenge yet, you naysaying is enough of one

It might suprise you that there are a few people here, myself included, that actually do shoot long range, do it well, and could teach you everything you need to know.

you sir are mistaken, It definately would not suprise me, which is why I came asking.

But none of them will be of any help to you if you refuse to listen. This summer I helped teach a LR shooting course and people with rifles that shot much better than the Mosin had a very tough time doing it.

Good luck.

thank you, I will need it. so how about some instruction to improve what I shot already...

[beefcakeb0]

To put a fine point on this exchange, Häyhä was a Finnish sniper in the 1939-40 Winter War between the USSR & Finland, not Swiss. His body count was far higher than 200 as well. The significance of Häyhä was his persistence in developing strong basic marksmanship skills rather than looking for solutions in equipment. This is a lesson that's being lost today.

thank you for both statements, I knew there was unfactual information being spread... and the bold as well because this is my desire...As a result of my lazy upbringing compared to wartime finland I will not be as diligent I imagine, but I want to build on what I have not buy more then build on it. and I have plans down the road to purchase a Finn MN, but not soon enough...

[arrrrgh15]

thank you, I will need it. so how about some instruction to improve what I shot already...

well, that's the whole point. You posted a target that's a pizza hut box with bullet holes scattered all over it shot from a standing position and with a rifle with questionable accuracy. So it's impossible to determine if you need help, if the rifle needs help, or both. Understand? You might be a crack shot for all I know, using an antique rifle that would best serve as a hammer for pounding tent stakes.

If you had a rifle that accuracy was not a question, we could narrow down potential shooter errors based on the results on the target.

at 200 yards there's no need to discuss things like wind and other factors that affect long range shooting. So I guess focus purely on the fundamentals.

My original advice still stands. The only other thing I could offer is try shooting off a bench or prone to weed out some of the affects of position shooting and see if you can narrow those groups and get a better idea of the rifles potential accuracy. After that, I can't help you.

[Hawk]

Lets be clear about the expectations of actual long range shooting. At 125 with a long range rifle you should be shooting 1 inch squares, 10 for 10. You should be hitting 2" squares 10 for 10 at 200, if you expect to go further, say 500, 1000 etc.

I think you haven't been reading all of the posts. We have discussed a more practical and achievable goal for him. With his current rifle (with open sights) he wants to work towards improving his ability with "that" rifle from the standing and seated position (maybe prone) at 100-200 yards. So your comparisons above don't hold water for him (someone with a scoped rifle from the bench or a bipod could do it, but that's not what he's doing).

Shooting a WWII vintage rifle at a cardboard box at ranges out to a couple hundred yards with iron sights and from assorted shooting positions is not long range shooting, as the title of the thread states.

Again, he has realized this and has set new goals.

There is no advice to give you on things like range estimation, wind, ballistics, etc, because they don't factor in at close ranges.

They do at 300 yards which is still close range. But he's not ready for that.
It's obvious he is seeking advice on building a position, NPA, trigger control, and breathing. Unfortunately, he probably needs more instruction and help afforded him from any forum discussion.

BTW, real men don't use scopes or bench's. j/k

[Hawk]

...So I guess focus purely on the fundamentals.

My original advice still stands. The only other thing I could offer is try shooting off a bench or prone to weed out some of the affects of position shooting and see if you can narrow those groups and get a better idea of the rifles potential accuracy. After that, I can't help you.

I agree with this ^.
You must bench the rifle and using the ammo you plan on using, lock that bad boy down (to take out all the human factor) and see how it shoots. I'd would hope that that rifle could shoot groups under 3 MOA (3" @ 100 yards). If it does, then keep it and continue with your training. Let us know what it shoots.