Argument over bear hunting leads to death - Jefferson County

[rjg]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pe..._to_death.html

Argument over bear hunting leads to death

SUMMERVILLE, Pa. - An argument over trespassing yesterday apparently sparked a shoot-out in rural northern Pennsylvania that left a landowner dead and a member of a bear-hunting party with a gunshot wound, police said.

Investigators were trying to sort out the details of the incident near Summerville, but charges are expected, said Trooper Bruce Morris. He said at least four shots were fired. "From what side to who, who shot first - they're going through that process to try to determine it," he said.

Frank N. Shaffer, 63, of Red Lion, was killed after he apparently confronted a group of four or five bear hunters about trespassing or walking across the land he owns with family members, Morris said. Paul H. Plyler, 23, of Summerville, was shot once and taken by a private vehicle to a hospital in nearby Brookville.

Summerville is about 15 miles from Punxsutawney and about 60 miles northeast of Pittsburgh.

[clarion44]

Heard about this yesterday. Quite the CF if you ask me.

[knight0334]

I know some of the Plyler families, my "wife"(rip) used to work for them as a waitress.

I know what my gut instinct is telling me, ...landowner got hotheaded and fired at them first. Return fire being defensive. ...BUT THAT IS JUST SPECULATION.

[Tootie]

Wow, is it really worth dying to stop someone from walking across your property? I think someone overreacted and paid the ultimate price for it.

I could be wrong but we'll see when more information comes out.

[bogey1]

was the castle doctrine bill signed

[knight0334]

Wow, is it really worth dying to stop someone from walking across your property? I think someone overreacted and paid the ultimate price for it.

I could be wrong but we'll see when more information comes out.

Not really in my opinion. ...reasons being,

1. if you allow your property to be open for recreational use state law affords you a protection from certain civil liabilities and damages if something goes bad(unless you are aware of a known hazard and fail to fix it, mark it, or warn about it).
2. it just plain isn't worth it..


We're starting to get a lot of urbanites and Peoples Republic states residents buying up lands and properties, then becoming little Hitlers with Napoleon complexes. Red Lion being near York, York being an urban area, York also being near the PRoM... ...well, things go hand in hand.

But sure, any person wanting permission for ingress and egress should ask ahead of time.

[1861]

I have noticed that private property rights don't mean near as much in PA. as in most states .

[Paradigm]

Private property is one thing that keeps us from being serfs. When people violate your property boundaries, you should be able to toss them out on their ears. When my mother-in-law bought a house near a state game land, she found for the first couple years hunters would walk all over her property without asking. Some even had the audacity to park in her driveway and leave their trash when they left. No wonder property disputes can become heated...or even violent.

Unfortunately for the landowner in the story, when things started to escalate, he should have walked away and called the police to handle the matter.

[Justin]

I read on another forum that the landowner had confronted the group with an AK, and was the one to fire first. This is, of course, like fourth-hand hearsay by this point, but could make for a rather interesting case. I can't wait to hear the facts.

Also, I feel sorry for all of those involved in this situation. This sucks.

[knight0334]

I have noticed that private property rights don't mean near as much in PA. as in most states .

PA is a mix of the English/Scot common law practices of open lands, and statutory laws protecting property rights.

With the Scot practice, you may traverse lands not marked or secured, but you had to leave gates in the position you found them in, not to disturb the lands and livestocks, and not to litter. With the US practice, its your own little kingdom. With the laws as they are written and with the old practice, its a wish-wash.. If the lands aren't posted, fenced, hedge-rowed, in a manner to deter traversing - you can do so in rural areas(court case supporting that), but you are still common law trespassing. It only becomes a criminal office if you fail to heed the owner's request for you to not traverse, or fail to leave, or ignore a posting, or jump a fence or other structure designed to keep people out.