Lights, lasers, and low light video

[synergy]

This is a promo video for Crimson Trace...however, I still think it offers a good explanation of where some of these tools come into play.

[Matthew Temkin]

Here is another one.
All are making a very good case for threat focused shooting under some conditions.
Seems that many are reaching the conclusion that seeing the sights is not always possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtr1NiiHGtY

[synergy]

Here is another one.
All are making a very good case for threat focused shooting under some conditions.
Seems that many are reaching the conclusion that seeing the sights is not always possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtr1NiiHGtY

Well, the thing to keep in mind is that it's a promotional video first... stats and wording will be presented to emphasize the advantages of their products.

That said...maybe so. I know there are now at least 4 of us here at PAFOA that will be training low light with Ken come March...I'm sure we'll all learn a lot more about these topics, then.

I think it becomes harder to put a shot on target with front sight focus under low light conditions. Without sufficient contrast between objects, you can't pick them out. When your eyes adjust to the night, you loose depth perception. Without illumination, you won't be able to notice a color difference between your target and what's around it. When your focal plane shifts from a faint outline downrange to a sight at close range...it'd probably be a lot easier to loose the target (or certainly make it more difficult to precisely put it where you want it). These are just my observations, given my relatively amateur understanding of how the human eye works.

I'm sure its a lot easier and quicker to place a shot using the CT's than it is using sights, in low light. I think it's probably where CT's are of the most benefit.

Here is some more info to consider....
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-...f-white-light/

Ken Hackathorn and I have developed a unique approach to the use of white light at night. We both are now teaching it with excellent results from students in our classes. It is called the Hackathorn/Vickers Flashbulb Technique or HV Technique for short. It incorporates movement along with a distinct flashbulb effect for illumination and target discrimination. The basic premise behind the technique is only use a minimal amount of white light to identify your target, then if needed another “flashbulb” application to determine if it is a threat. After that, engage if necessary to eliminate the threat. The entire time continue to move so if the target begins to return fire it is directed at where you just left, not where you are located now. It requires practice but the results tend to be dramatically better than any other technique that Ken or I are aware of. These courses will focus on proper use of white light using the HV technique as well as the tactical applications of Crimson Trace lasergrips and lasers in general. All things related to shooting and fighting at night with a carbine and pistol will be covered in detail including night sights, point shooting, equipment selection, and house clearing.

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/night-sights/

You need to practice at night with your night sights to determine how well you can shoot with them. Many shooters have the attitude that with tritium sights on their pistol they are ready to go for night fighting. Not quite. I have seen many shooters who struggle shooting at night with tritium sights. Two factors that are often overlooked are having to shift focus from the target to the sights with the resulting loss of target definition and eyesight limitations at night. Both of these can lead to bad hits and complete misses at night. Pistols lasers such as those offered by Crimson Trace offer a distinct advantage at night vs. just night sights. This topic will be covered in a separate Tactical Tips article.

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-...ce-lasergrips/

Visible Lasers & CTC Lasergrips

As many of you know I am a consultant for Crimson Trace Lasergrips. I am sure some of you will quit reading right now expecting this to be a “puff piece” talking about how great they are and not admitting any downside. Those of you in that category certainly don’t know me very well. The following is the reality of visible lasers & CTC Lasergrips according to Larry Vickers with no punches pulled.

I used to think, like many others, that pistol lasers were a joke. Fortunately for me I have not had to eat as much crow over this topic as my good friend Ken Hackathorn but I have eaten my fair share. After giving them an honest assessment here is what it really boils down to: a laser on a pistol offers much the same advantages as red dot reflex sights on a carbine or SMG. Under stress shooting scenarios they make shooting a handgun a much easier task; they are a very useful tool in the toolbox.

I highlight CTC lasers in my night fire portion of my handgun instruction along with night sights and white light principles and techniques. At night and in conditions of limited visibility they are nothing short of awesome; they make accurate handgun shooting easier than any other sighting system currently on the market. Don’t get me wrong, night sights and white light have their place but a visible laser at night rules. Period. Anyone who has had one of my classes or been taught by Ken Hackathorn can attest to that. They dramatically improve the shooters ability to get accurate hits at night. Of course like anything else visible lasers have pros and cons and we will highlight those in detail.

1) Where and when to use lasers - a rule of thumb is any time you have any degree of difficulty seeing your pistol sights then a visible laser will be an advantage. For instance coming into a building from outside even during the day the laser will be of value indoors. Out in bright daylight I prefer my iron sights and find the laser a bit of a distraction. Anytime you combine low or reduced visibility with shooting on the move or unconventional shooting positions the laser is a distinct advantage. Police have found that visible lasers to be a distinct advantage while using a shield; that would fall into the unconventional shooting position category mentioned above. They are also excellent training aids for watching shooter trigger control as any movement during the trigger squeeze will show up on target. When first using the laser shooters will try and eliminate all movement and early on this can cause shooters snatching or jerking the trigger. Once you learn to accept your wobble zone (which is now more visible due to the visible laser on target) then fast and accurate shooting comes more naturally. Once mastered you can shoot faster and more accurate under low light conditions than you ever could with regular pistol sights or even night sights for that matter.

2) Special Considerations with lasers - As a battery operated device occasionally they will need new batteries. Crimson Trace advertises a 4 hour continuous run time on their laser grips. That is sufficient for most use as I can attest; I have not had to change any batteries to date. Oil, solvents, water and dust can all play a part in making the visible laser less than 100% functional. Because of this they do occasionally need maintenance and cleaning. I know that is a shocker to many but it is probably a good idea once in awhile to make sure your pistol is properly cleaned, lubricated, and maintained. That would include your visible laser aiming device. I am a believer in having your laser separate from your white light for a couple reasons. You will always have an enhanced night fighting capability even when your white light is removed and you can have serious issues with retaining zero depending on the light/laser mounting system. For these reasons and others I prefer Crimson Trace Lasergrips over accessory rail mounted light/laser units. One downside is CTC does not make Lasergrips for every service pistol on the market so depending on your gun you may not have an option.

3) Durability and reliability - CTC has sold thousands of M9 Beretta Laser Grips to the US Military. They have been received with overwhelming positive feedback. Remember the M9 does not even have night sights so the Lasergrips add a low light capability that simply did not exist before. This is a huge advantage and many of the troops appreciate it. The visible laser is also very useful for crowd control as the “red dot” seems to cross all language and cultural barriers. As we know combat is the ultimate test bed and CTC has taken lessons learned in the sandbox and is moving forward with a true milspec M9 Lasergrip: water and dust proof. It is being developed as this is written so it is too soon to project a date when they will be available.

My personal favorite CTC Lasergrips are the S&W J frame versions (every J frame on the planet should have them; it is nothing short of a revolutionary shooting aid on that gun), the model 401 M1911 version, and the M9 Beretta Lasergrips. I use and endorse all three of these. That is not to say these are the only ones worth using just that they are my favorites. Another little trick is to send the plastic Lasergrips to David Bowie (not the singer) at www.bowietacticalconcepts.com for his superb stippling. This makes them less slippery and because of the way Dave stipples them it actually enhances the appearance of the grips. I was the first to start this trend with David and I would not use a set without it. Highly recommended.

I will close this by saying if you have not tried a visible laser you should. Especially if CTC makes a pair of Lasergrips for your favorite blaster. Remember they are meant to augment the standard pistol sights, not replace them. They are simply another tool in the tool box.

[Shawn.L]

I was in a one session low light class taught by a DEA instructor. The "flashbulb" technique above is what he was teaching us. We did a number of drills with it.

I also have had a small amount of flashlight instruction from Giles Stock.

I have done a little shooting in the dark, more than once. We even ran a "Dark Match" USPSA match at my club (PMSC) this past year.

It may be the 5" bbl on my 1911(45ACP) but the flash even using cheappo WM ammo was not enough to lose my sights. Shooting a 3" 9mm the flash was significantly more (XDSC9), enough to lose the sights and need to adjust for a split seconf back to find them.

I found my NS's on my 1911 where super bright, and very easy to pick up in the dark. I felt like it made using them easier even, esp in low light shooting without using a light but where targets could still be made out.

I'm taking that Hackathorn class as well (along with a few others here) I'm sure we will all come back and talk all about it

Im not a laser fan. Mostly because I see people buy into them, and not have any training. For the cost, most any shooter is better served spending that money on a decent defensive handgun course. For the skilled end user its another tool, that they may recognize and use in some niche application.

For the average shooter? Who may shoot once a month or less. Not doing presentations. At the range. nO timers, no moving, no stress, no FOF, no training, no clue........... its a waste of recources.

[Matthew Temkin]

I have shot various laser/light equipped handguns and I really like the combo light/laser that attaches to the gun.
I was working with a Swedish SWAT team who had that unit on their SIG 226's and liked how easy it was to make head shots out to 25 meters and how simple it made shooting from a close contact position out to 7 meters or so.
It also makes shooting from around cover a snap, especially since you can just stick your hand out and from the cover without exposing yourself.
My dad (who was a WW2 Ranger) was with me at that SWAT range and, after watching laser equipped handguns/ sub guns in action he said, "Gee, I wish we had these in Italy."

[synergy]

I have shot various laser/light equipped handguns and I really like the combo light/laser that attaches to the gun.
I was working with a Swedish SWAT team who had that unit on their SIG 226's and liked how easy it was to make head shots out to 25 meters and how simple it made shooting from a close contact position out to 7 meters or so.
It also makes shooting from around cover a snap, especially since you can just stick your hand out and from the cover without exposing yourself.
My dad (who was a WW2 Ranger) was with me at that SWAT range and, after watching laser equipped handguns/ sub guns in action he said, "Gee, I wish we had these in Italy."

How do you verify that the laser is on the target if your eyes are not out past the cover, too?

And if your eyes are past the cover...why don't conventional sights work?

[Smalls]

Synergy,

Where would I find information if I would be interested in attending the class also?

[Matthew Temkin]

How do you verify that the laser is on the target if your eyes are not out past the cover, too?

And if your eyes are past the cover...why don't conventional sights work?

Actually it is shown later on in the video.
You stick your gun hand well around the corner and with minimal exposure of one eye you can see the laser dot on the bad guy.

[synergy]

Synergy,

Where would I find information if I would be interested in attending the class also?

It's in the training announcements subforum...or you can just go to greygrouptraining.com.

[synergy]

Actually it is shown later on in the video.
You stick your gun hand well around the corner and with minimal exposure of one eye you can see the laser dot on the bad guy.

So the pistol and your eyes are beyond cover?

Kinda like this: